I started this thread to hopefully get some valued info from
CGN members.Thanks for your suggestion.
338 Norma Magnum
- Thread starter sask378
- Start date
I started this thread to hopefully get some valued info from
CGN members.Thanks for your suggestion.
I have a question regarding the 338LM & the Sierra 300gr MK if someone wants to answer.
I get close to 3.900" with the bullet seated at the shoulder/neck junction. I can't find a mag out there that would work with that dimension. That's why I started looking at the 338 Norma.
Why is there so many repeaters out there with the 338 Lapua CIP reamer? Can you seat the Sierra 300gr into the powder column without issue? Mag length of 3.775".
I would just build a single shot.
I see Seekins make a "Lapua 3.900" detachable mag system but can't see getting that up here anywhere.
I get close to 3.900" with the bullet seated at the shoulder/neck junction. I can't find a mag out there that would work with that dimension. That's why I started looking at the 338 Norma.
Why is there so many repeaters out there with the 338 Lapua CIP reamer? Can you seat the Sierra 300gr into the powder column without issue? Mag length of 3.775".
I would just build a single shot.
I see Seekins make a "Lapua 3.900" detachable mag system but can't see getting that up here anywhere.
Wow. Again, lots to read, with little information.
The .338 Norma Mag. has nothing to do with previous Norma cartridges. As mentioned, it is a shortened, blown out .338 Lapua case. While it does not have the same powder capacity as the Lapua, it does reach similar, but slower velocities. The whole point behind the Norma case was overall length. One of the largest detriments to the Lapua case is short OAL. Those large 300 grain bullets take up a lot of usable space in the case. The Norma mag, with slightly less capacity, allows for the bullet to be seated farther out, making more useable case capacity, making room for more powder, and therefore making velocity. That’s it. That is why it exists. It was a great idea, until some feller decided it would be a great idea to AI the Lapua case. More powder, more velocity, with a still crappy OAL. As the Lapua case becomes more and more popular, and more and more militaries adopt it, we'll see magazines developed to enable a longer OAL.
Think of the .338 Norma Mag. as a WSM, or SAUM, and eventually it will become an answer to a question that no one asked.
R.
The .338 Norma Mag. has nothing to do with previous Norma cartridges. As mentioned, it is a shortened, blown out .338 Lapua case. While it does not have the same powder capacity as the Lapua, it does reach similar, but slower velocities. The whole point behind the Norma case was overall length. One of the largest detriments to the Lapua case is short OAL. Those large 300 grain bullets take up a lot of usable space in the case. The Norma mag, with slightly less capacity, allows for the bullet to be seated farther out, making more useable case capacity, making room for more powder, and therefore making velocity. That’s it. That is why it exists. It was a great idea, until some feller decided it would be a great idea to AI the Lapua case. More powder, more velocity, with a still crappy OAL. As the Lapua case becomes more and more popular, and more and more militaries adopt it, we'll see magazines developed to enable a longer OAL.
Think of the .338 Norma Mag. as a WSM, or SAUM, and eventually it will become an answer to a question that no one asked.
R.
To answer your question directly, yes you can, and do, seat the bullet that deep. Depending on the magazine, even deeper.
The Lapua was originally developed for 250 grain bullets, hence the crappy OAL with 300 grain projectiles. There are lots of rumors regarding 4" plus magazines in many rifles. So, in the meantime, seat those bullets deep, or, shoot single shot. Like everything else, "they" will get it right, eventually.
R.
Jerry
What are the new Hot Rod powders for the .338 LM and what will they be capable of?
Wade
Mystic Precision
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Summerland, BC
Unfortunately, this bullet seating thing go lost in the real reason to exist.
The reason many match cases are throated so the bullet boattail is at the neck/shoulder junction is to MAXIMIZE case volume. It had nothing to do with accuracy.
Chamber restricted classes help drive this development - see FTR. Same case, more case volume, more potential performance.
At this point, the bearing surface of the bullet is held only by the neck length. This has been found to be plenty enough for proper neck tension, support and accuracy during toasty load firing in single fed or mag fed bolt rifles.
Seating a bullet deeper will not make it any less accurate as long as the proper relation to the lands is maintained. The only thing that will change is the available case volume which will lead to a change in load and/or powder choice for peak performance.
SO.... The 338 Norma looks "accurate" cause that is the look most match ammo has BUT having a bullet stick that far out is actually a liability in a working rifle. Way easier to knock the bullet out of alignment during handling.
And definitely not something I would want in a semi/full auto firing rig. Just looking for a great way to get a jam. The "improved" case most certainly is not helping here either.
The larger case volume of the Lapua AND the deeper seated bullet still offer MORE USEABLE case volume which leads to higher performance.
The 338 Norma is indeed a question that no one was asking and why it has been so slow to get anywhere. Make on heck of a 30cal though.
The more appropriate comparison is like the 260Rem and the 6.5 Creedmore. Both can be made to feed from the same mag with desireable bullets. The larger 260Rem case will always offer more performance when both are held to the same rifle parameters.
But the notion of pushing that bullet out has now become "necessary" and Hrn saw an opportunity to capitalize on a poorly supported "better" choice. Good marketing and good sales. Congrats.
If pushing 300gr 338 monster slugs is the goal, the 338 LM is already pretty small by boomer standards. Why handicap performance even more?
YMMV.
Jerry
Mystic Precision
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Summerland, BC
I doubt it. once a mag goes into service, the forces are loath to make any changes.
Why are we still saddled with M1A and M16 length mags?
Given the enormous growth in sales of the ar15, changing the receiver to house a AI length 223 mag would still have had enormous sales in mags and all supporting gear.
I would suspect it would be even stronger given how much better the AR would work at distance BUT....
Think of how different the firearms landscape would be if the 308 mag would house a 3" shell and the AR mag house a 2.7".
It like holding back F1 development cause we can only use a tire developed in 1945. Silly....
Jerry
Going with a .338LM with no detachable magazine.
Remington BDL floorplate with a Weatherby Mark V box, follower, & spring should do the trick. All below a Stiller TAC338.
Should be the answer to any mag dimension issues. 3.800" OAL should be possible?
Remington BDL floorplate with a Weatherby Mark V box, follower, & spring should do the trick. All below a Stiller TAC338.
Should be the answer to any mag dimension issues. 3.800" OAL should be possible?
Depends. Which Mk V box? 300 Wby or 30-378 Wby? - dan
If doing a custom bulid, check out Wyatt for mag boxes here: http://wyattsoutdoor.com/product_info.php/cPath/1/products_id/39
Up to 4" of space. Any compentant smith can make the required cuts...
R.
