Now I searched and couldn't find a topic like this anywhere. I've been into guns for a while now and have a shotgun and sks. I want to dip my feet into the AR game but anytime I read these threads I don't understand half of what people are talking about. Now.. Do you guys think I should buy a gun that's a decent price before I am more knowledgable or will the knowledge come as I own the gun and play with it more? Any help is appreciated.
AR's in general.. First buy
- Thread starter wolfsblood
- Start date
andrew3081
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Vancouver, BC
Buy norinco ar15 for $700 and have fun with it.
You will learn lots
You will learn lots
A bit of both. There's a whole lot of unfamiliar terms. I suppose my first question for you is what you want to do with it(just to have one, occasional plinking, long range accuracy, competition).
The main point is that due to the nature of ARs all being restricted by accident of birth, there's not much point for the average person to spend huge amounts of money on it.
Granted, there are some very fine guns available for, say $1600, but they're not going to really give you any appreciable difference on a casual basis. A $600 norinco will do you fine for the occasional shoot, it's when you start doing competitions and courses and all that jazz that the fancier guns start to apply.
Unlike most other firearms, the AR platform is completely modular. The vast majority of brands out there work with one another, so you can start off with a $600 norinco, and end up with a $6000 superpowered custom gun that can fight off alien invasions, all one piece at a time.
It's a completely different perspective from other guns, where if you buy a cheap entry level gun you're stuck with that gun and can only modify it within a narrow spectrum such as trigger pull, unless you pony up massive amounts of money for a gunsmith to replace the barrel or something. With an AR, you can swap components very quickly without specialized tools in most circumstances. That's maybe not a huge consideration for the average guy, but it really comes in handy for competitive shooting as you can easily carry a kit of spare parts to replace any springs, pins, or other minor components rather than needing to send it in to a gunsmith for repairs.
There are some good videos on youtube, such as http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hgcpR2QYBSY&feature=related
Or http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PFFN_j3WD80&feature=related
I really don't know where to start for general explanations, other than to say that an AR is a collection of parts, whereas most other guns are complete units. Youtube has some very good videos if you look around. If you have specific questions, don't hesitate to ask.
The main point is that due to the nature of ARs all being restricted by accident of birth, there's not much point for the average person to spend huge amounts of money on it.
Granted, there are some very fine guns available for, say $1600, but they're not going to really give you any appreciable difference on a casual basis. A $600 norinco will do you fine for the occasional shoot, it's when you start doing competitions and courses and all that jazz that the fancier guns start to apply.
Unlike most other firearms, the AR platform is completely modular. The vast majority of brands out there work with one another, so you can start off with a $600 norinco, and end up with a $6000 superpowered custom gun that can fight off alien invasions, all one piece at a time.
It's a completely different perspective from other guns, where if you buy a cheap entry level gun you're stuck with that gun and can only modify it within a narrow spectrum such as trigger pull, unless you pony up massive amounts of money for a gunsmith to replace the barrel or something. With an AR, you can swap components very quickly without specialized tools in most circumstances. That's maybe not a huge consideration for the average guy, but it really comes in handy for competitive shooting as you can easily carry a kit of spare parts to replace any springs, pins, or other minor components rather than needing to send it in to a gunsmith for repairs.
There are some good videos on youtube, such as http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hgcpR2QYBSY&feature=related
Or http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PFFN_j3WD80&feature=related
I really don't know where to start for general explanations, other than to say that an AR is a collection of parts, whereas most other guns are complete units. Youtube has some very good videos if you look around. If you have specific questions, don't hesitate to ask.
Based on your level of confusion, then yeah, I say buy a Norinco. And as Stevebot pointed out, you can upgrade it along the way. In no time, you'll know the gun, every spring, and ever pin.
AR machines are like lego.
AR machines are like lego.
I disagree strongly.....
By the time you are done upgrading this gun and fooling with it to get the desired result of what you would have wanted you will be kicking yourself that you should have just spent the money in the first place and purchased an AR that will be right out of the box.
In this regard if buying brand new and depending on budget then I would suggest DANIEL DEFENSE rifle it is the best for your buck by far so far and nothing really coming close for price and quality.
Go to there website and look at the specs, very tough to beat them for the price. There Barrels make it all the worth while, for a starter gun or professional it will meet every requirement/criteria you will probably ever have.
There rail systems offered are amazing, there BCGs(MILSPEC) are nice, combat trigger,CTR or MOE stock and a cold hammer forged barrel made by them and even HK respects there barrel making abilities.
Plus they are committed to making a top quality rifle and there fit and finish is great.
If you buy a Norinco, you can shoot the crap out of it, learn lots about the AR, and then sell the thing. You won't lose a whole lot on the sale. Buying a Norinco, and then spending a lot of money ungrading it, doesn't make sense to me, from the standpoint of what the thing is worth when you are finished.
Really, though, you need to decide what sort of shooting you are planning to do.
Really, though, you need to decide what sort of shooting you are planning to do.
andrew3081
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Vancouver, BC
I also disagree strongly.
A Daniel Defense cost around $1500. For that price you can get TWO Norinco Ar15. Or one Norinco Ar15 and 2000 rounds of .223 REM bullets to shot with. And from all the reviews I have read, I have not seen any major issues with their Ar15.
What can a Daniel Defense ar15 do that a Norinco cant do?
Also Why not just spend $1100 on Core15 which is AS GOOD as Daniel Defense?
The only problem I heard of for upgrading the Norinco Ar15 is the hand guard is hard to fit in.
I wished I bought a Norinco instead of buying an expensive AR15. Ar15 is only good for shooting paper targets, why spend so much on it?
As Leiburmuster, Daniel Defense is one of the very nice brands that are also decently priced. For my first AR I got a Daniel Defense M4V5, largely because I plan on getting into competitive shooting next year and figured it's better to spend the money now and get it over with rather than buying a Norinco and then spend $1700 upgrading it.
The Daniel Defense website has a nice preview function that lets you mix and match their parts to see what ones work together, and to get a feel for what sort of system you might want.
However I just want to say that you should have a firm idea of what you want. My M4V5 is reasonably good for most intended uses, but even so I'm looking at over $400 of changes to replace the rail and gas block, and right now I'm probably already $600 in for buying other bits like sights, an ammo can, and mags.
That said, if you do buy a DD and then want to swap parts out they are virtually guaranteed to sell instantly on the EE. Big demand for DD parts, they're like candy.
The Daniel Defense website has a nice preview function that lets you mix and match their parts to see what ones work together, and to get a feel for what sort of system you might want.
However I just want to say that you should have a firm idea of what you want. My M4V5 is reasonably good for most intended uses, but even so I'm looking at over $400 of changes to replace the rail and gas block, and right now I'm probably already $600 in for buying other bits like sights, an ammo can, and mags.
That said, if you do buy a DD and then want to swap parts out they are virtually guaranteed to sell instantly on the EE. Big demand for DD parts, they're like candy.
Choices
My choice was to start somewhat in the middle with a Stag Model 3 with the plus upgrades as supplied here through Arms East.
Probably the day after I received it I was surfing the net looking at all the upgrades and mods.
Such is the madness of many AR owners as the rifle is an adult Lego set for slightly deranged gun nuts. There is no end to it but that's the fun of it all.
I have a semi custom 1911 that is hard to beat. Similar to the AR you can spend years playing with upgrades on the 1911 but I started too close to the top. All I could do was buy extra grip panels.
I suspect that I will be having fun with the AR for years only it likely will be an ever changing toy which is fine by me.
My choice was to start somewhat in the middle with a Stag Model 3 with the plus upgrades as supplied here through Arms East.
Probably the day after I received it I was surfing the net looking at all the upgrades and mods.
Such is the madness of many AR owners as the rifle is an adult Lego set for slightly deranged gun nuts. There is no end to it but that's the fun of it all.
I have a semi custom 1911 that is hard to beat. Similar to the AR you can spend years playing with upgrades on the 1911 but I started too close to the top. All I could do was buy extra grip panels.
I suspect that I will be having fun with the AR for years only it likely will be an ever changing toy which is fine by me.
I bought my 1st AR, but I waited awhile and did my homework.
Then it came down to what I needed for my application.
I already had some parts as my original plan was build one.
Scrapped that and bought a Windham Weaponry WW-15 ready for optics.
Cost me around $1200 taxes and shipping included.
MODS:
MAGPUL CTR STOCK
MAGPUL TRIGGER GUARD
MAGPUL MOE GRIP
MAPGPUL BACK AND FRONT SIGHT
FAB Defense M4 quad rail
Timney Drop in Trigger (Small pin)
Gunfighter Medium Charging handle
Then it came down to what I needed for my application.
I already had some parts as my original plan was build one.
Scrapped that and bought a Windham Weaponry WW-15 ready for optics.
Cost me around $1200 taxes and shipping included.
MODS:
MAGPUL CTR STOCK
MAGPUL TRIGGER GUARD
MAGPUL MOE GRIP
MAPGPUL BACK AND FRONT SIGHT
FAB Defense M4 quad rail
Timney Drop in Trigger (Small pin)
Gunfighter Medium Charging handle
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Buying two piece of sh*t Honda Civics does not equal a Porsche no matter how much you drive them and add plastic sh*t to them.
Priceless
DD or a Spikes would be good choices to start off with. Both have good reputations behind them. They're also far less likey to have any major issues quality wise with either of them & at least if you do want to add the Kool-Aid on later, you'll know it fits without question.
Having said that, I opted to build my own. After reading & seeing a multitude of build threads, I knew what I was after & part of the fun is sourcing & waiting for the parts to arrive. I also figured building from the ground up would give me a better understanding of how the platform functions. Just don't ask me which Cal it will be or if it's a PDW/Carbine build, cause that changes hourly
Is it any cheaper than buying one? Yes & No. I've seen builds from $1200 up-to $3K+ range. Really it's all in what you want and expect out of your AR in terms of parts & how much your willing to spend to achieve said results.
Food for thought anyways ymmv
DD or a Spikes would be good choices to start off with. Both have good reputations behind them. They're also far less likey to have any major issues quality wise with either of them & at least if you do want to add the Kool-Aid on later, you'll know it fits without question.
Having said that, I opted to build my own. After reading & seeing a multitude of build threads, I knew what I was after & part of the fun is sourcing & waiting for the parts to arrive. I also figured building from the ground up would give me a better understanding of how the platform functions. Just don't ask me which Cal it will be or if it's a PDW/Carbine build, cause that changes hourly
Is it any cheaper than buying one? Yes & No. I've seen builds from $1200 up-to $3K+ range. Really it's all in what you want and expect out of your AR in terms of parts & how much your willing to spend to achieve said results.
Food for thought anyways ymmv
my opinion:
Get a medium priced AR (I own a CORE15 MOE) That way you have a solid base to get into the game and you are not out a ton of cash. With a Norc you save money, but I do not want to put money into a made in China rifle. That is just me. A medium price rifle also leaves room for a decent optic like an Aimpoint PRO. So for $2000 you can get a rifle(CORE), optic (Aimpoint) and 1000 rounds of 5.56.
Get a medium priced AR (I own a CORE15 MOE) That way you have a solid base to get into the game and you are not out a ton of cash. With a Norc you save money, but I do not want to put money into a made in China rifle. That is just me. A medium price rifle also leaves room for a decent optic like an Aimpoint PRO. So for $2000 you can get a rifle(CORE), optic (Aimpoint) and 1000 rounds of 5.56.
I was in the same boat as you and was looking at Norinco as the price point is great and they seem to get decent reviews here. I ended up spending a little bit more to get an American made unit instead of Chinese as I would rather own a Chev than a Geely.
I looked all around and ended up with an Olympic Arms AR15 (still waiting for the transfer to come in, apparently the BC CFO is a little backed up) that was $899. From their website (olyarms.com) they seem to be innovators in the AR industry especially with different calibers. from handling both side by side and that it is North American made (just a couple hour drive from my house) it was an easy decision.
I am looking forward to learning about the platform more and getting more into the customization and general fun (just too bad about the Restricted status, but I guess if they weren't, everyone would have at least one and it would be difficult for stores to keep them on the shelves).
I looked all around and ended up with an Olympic Arms AR15 (still waiting for the transfer to come in, apparently the BC CFO is a little backed up) that was $899. From their website (olyarms.com) they seem to be innovators in the AR industry especially with different calibers. from handling both side by side and that it is North American made (just a couple hour drive from my house) it was an easy decision.
I am looking forward to learning about the platform more and getting more into the customization and general fun (just too bad about the Restricted status, but I guess if they weren't, everyone would have at least one and it would be difficult for stores to keep them on the shelves).
1. Remain Calm.
Your first forays into reading Black rifle threads is like taking a sip from a fire hose.
Don't sweat the details, take it bit by bit.
2. ARs are awesome goodness.
They are versatile and dependable.
If this nation didn't have such nanny state over regulation, I am certain there would be an AR in every Canadian closet and basement rafter to accompany all those Cooeys.
They are also addictive and an AR can be more accessorized than Barbie.
3. Ask around.
Friends, at the range or even just post here on CGN if anyone is close to you just to meet. The firearms community is the friendliest and biggest promoter and self support group that you could imagine. Countless people here have encouraged, taught, developed and helped each other. Then we want to pass on what was openly given to us too. So don't be afraid to ask around or meet others to learn more.
4. Be patient in looking for a deal.
There are some great ARs that you can find as starter deals that are a superb value for the money, both new and slightly used here on CGN. Have you already gotten access the the Equipment Exchange here on CGN? Don't go spending big money just yet, look for value deals.
Cheers
Your first forays into reading Black rifle threads is like taking a sip from a fire hose.
Don't sweat the details, take it bit by bit.
2. ARs are awesome goodness.
They are versatile and dependable.
If this nation didn't have such nanny state over regulation, I am certain there would be an AR in every Canadian closet and basement rafter to accompany all those Cooeys.
They are also addictive and an AR can be more accessorized than Barbie.
3. Ask around.
Friends, at the range or even just post here on CGN if anyone is close to you just to meet. The firearms community is the friendliest and biggest promoter and self support group that you could imagine. Countless people here have encouraged, taught, developed and helped each other. Then we want to pass on what was openly given to us too. So don't be afraid to ask around or meet others to learn more.
4. Be patient in looking for a deal.
There are some great ARs that you can find as starter deals that are a superb value for the money, both new and slightly used here on CGN. Have you already gotten access the the Equipment Exchange here on CGN? Don't go spending big money just yet, look for value deals.
Cheers
andrew3081
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Vancouver, BC
It's stupid to compare guns to cars really.
It's like comparing oranges to apples.
For a gun, all it need is for it to go bang everytime u pull the trigger... Cars are way more complicated than that.
And depends on what you want the gun for.... For shooting or good looking.
Same for cars, Honda civic are good enough for commuting.
2 Honda civics are better than 1 porsche if you just want to get point a to b.
If you have $ to burn and like high end cars .. Sure Porsche is better.
throwing on equal kilometers two Honda Civics will greatly outlast a Porsche hands down and on a city street, the Porsche's extra performance doesn't mean anything when you're limited to 60KM/H...
But it is nice to get in and drive that Porsche when you get the chance.
Two different ways of looking at it, yes, nice to have the higher end fine leather and carbon fibre car to stretch out the odd day... but I had a whole lot of fun in my Civic, I was able to change stuff around and since it was so cheap I didn't feel bad about changing wheels, and seats and painting different things and swapping the motor and an audio video system...
Both the Norinco and the DD are great guns for what they are, just like the Porsche and the Civic are great cars for what they are in their segment.
