Some technique questions for a new guy.

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pavmentsurfer

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Im getting better with my Savage 10 PC in .223. Ive moved out to 200 yards now and am consistently hitting 2.5 -3 inch groups. Id very much like that to be smaller but ill start another thread with some pics and questions about that later on. For now, im just wondering what the proper technique is when im shooting.

I shoot off my bipod up front and rear bag. Im laying on the ground every time and shooting slightly down hill. Once I get the target sighted in I slowly pull the trigger till it goes off. When it does, the front of the gun is not controlled by anything so it jumps off the ground when it recoils. Is this the right way to do it? Should I be holding the front down or trying to control it at all? I see most shooters seem to hold like me with one hand on the grip and trigger and the other wedged under the rear of the stock either supporting the butt or holding a bag. So I cant imagine anything is controlling the front of the gun, but I was just curious if anyone had any tips.

Also, ive read a few places about "loading the bi-pod". When im shooting I try to adjust things so im pushing forward into the bipod before I shoot as opposed to having the gun relaxed, just resting on it. Is that "loading" the bi-pod or is there another technique I should be trying?

Thanks for the tips. 200 yards isnt even a challenge for many of you I know. But its as much room as I have right now where I shoot and I figure its best to master this distance before going farther and getting frustrated.
 
Sounds like what you are doing is basically sound.

Typical technique when using a rear bag with a bipod is to hold the bag with your non-trigger hand, to apply continuous fine adjustment to your point of aim as you are squeezing the trigger. For a right-handed shooter, your right hand operates the action and fires the rifle, your left hand steers the rifle.

Don't worry about "loading the bipod" now, and possibly never.

You are off to a very good start, hitting 2.5-3 inch groups at 200. If you get to the point where you can't improve on that, you then need to determine what is the limiting factor (your ammo? your rifle? your scope? your shooting technique?).

If you aren't already using good ammo, that's the first place to start. Good ammo is either factory match ammo (ouch, $$$!), or handloads made with known-good bullets (Sierra 69HPMK, Nosler 55 Ballistic Tips are two very-reliably-good bullets I like to use in .22 centrefires)
 
Daniel is abosolutely right on.

I would add a couple of things....

Natural point of aim: If you close your eyes once you are on target, and reopen them to find you are pointing off in space, you are having to force your inputs. Possition yourself so that on-targer is the natural point of aim.

trigger technique: there is a great deal of personal choice involved here, but in terms of trigger pull, for precision shooting, lighter is generally better. No more than 1-2 pounds pull weight. Next is how you squeeze it. Find a technique where you are squeezing the trigger and not the gun. Curling up your fist as part of your trigger pull throws things off. Touch off the trigger with your finget tip pad and LEAVE IT SQUUEZED until well after the shot has gone off. ...this is part of...

Follow through: If you watch a shooter that has been secretly given a powderless load or someone that thinks they have a loaded rifle loaded when they actually forgot to load, you will note that they often flinch in anticipation of their shots. This is a HUGE issue with those that insist on learning precision shooting with 338 win mags, or even light 308 rifles. flnching will pull your shots You must ,force yourself to relax, and the detonation should be a "surprise" That surprise must not be physical. When the shot goes off, train yourself to remain perfectly still, including keeping your trigger to te rear. When things have settled after a couple of seconds, release the trigger and comose your next shot. KEEP YOUR EYES OPEN THROUGHT THE SHOT...DON'T ALLOW YOUR SELF TO FLINCH ANYWHERE.

It is difficult to do these techniques without a coach or observer, but not impossible. Have a friend instructed to watch your follow through and observe for flinching

Sight picture and scope positioning: If using a scope, it is vital that your parallax be properly set. The reticle should remain rock solid as you move your head, If the reticle moves along with your head, you need to adjust the parallax. Remember that your sight is higher than the bore... the sights is pointed to converge with where the bullet hits, and if that parallax is not set properly, variations in head positioning between shots with cause you to aim at different spots without realizing it.

Rifle cant Again, you scope is pointed in a dead straight line to the target, whereas the barrel is often oriented to launch bullets in a high arc. if you rotated the gun 90 degrees (an extreme example) the sight would still be pointed at the target, but the shout would fly off way to the left or right, and would have no elevation at all. Think of canting your gun as having the same results as hooking or slicing a golf shot. the effects can throw you many feet off the paper at long distance. Many prone shooters have bubble levels on their scope or their bloop tubes. If the level isn't set absolutely perfect, it is not the end of the world... it still allows you to keep things exactly that same from shot to shot. Shooting with a buddy and being able to coach each otehr is a great learning technique. It allows your "target practice" sessions to become training sessions. Practicing the same bad techniques every shooting day only make changin to be that much more difficult.
 
I think you should try loading the bipod especially if your getting some hop out of a 223. The trick is not to push forward on the bipod, but to allow your body weight to apply natural pressure as you get behind the rifle. It should feel completely natural otherwise it will become more of a hinderance than anything else.
 
Wow... these are awesome answers. They explain so much of what I just wasnt getting on my own. I think I naturally picked up on a number of them but some I just didnt even know were important.

I do blink when I shoot... I cant imagine its possible not to. But I know I quickly release the trigger once the shot has gone off. I have been playing with my Parallax quite a bit recently and have found settings where the reticle stays dead on my aiming point. Im also experimenting with pushing forward into the bipod or just letting the gun rest on it without any extra input. I like the 2nd one best. I did notice my shots improved when I allowed myself to be "surprised" when the gun fired. At first I was anticipating it and would tense up as I pulled the trigger. Now I try really hard to stay completely relaxed with the target centred and just let the gun do its thing. From what youve said, so far im not doing too bad.

As far as ammunition. Im using Hornady Vmax 55g. They are the best rounds I can afford at the moment and they seem to be doing O.K. I definitely have got the message that to improve much beyond where I am now ill have to start loading and learning how thats best accomplished. For now, im just going to keep practicing with the same factory rounds so everyrhing stays pretty consistent. I have a friend who wants to go in together on a re-loading setup. So when were both ready we'll invest in something good. For now, I was able to explain away the gun box when it arrived. The scope box was easy cause it was small. But dont ever let a woman tell you size doesnt matter... the bigger the box that arrives, the more it must have cost... therefore, the more squinty eyed and complainy she gets. I need to let the gun and scope purchases wear off in her mind before I spend any more on something large.
 
I don't preload the bipod but let it rest naturally. What I do use is a piece of firm carpet under the feet. Indoor/outdoor or a piece of tight twist carpet is good.(If it's bright you can even be fashionable :)) The feet should not depress the surface otherwise your gunlaying will be inconsistent, but the carpet will dampen some of the recoil effect.

And,buy her something with some bling and it'll ease the pain or get her involved in shooting - she might really enjoy it !
 
^^ Great idea. I was thinking (along the same lines) about laying a level patio slab or similar hard flat surface down where I set my bipod each time. Its my property so no one would bother it. I use the same spot each time so making improvements is probably a good investment.
 
First thing to do is prove the mechanical accuracy of the rifle and ammo you are shooting. Solid bench, front and rear bags - rock solid. Then put up flags and shoot on a calm day. Shoot a few 5rds groups and average the accuracy.

Say under ideal conditions you are grouping 1.5" at 200yds. Now when you are on your bipod the groups grow to 2.5" - you can then infer that this is shooter error and you can work towards improving your form and follow through. If from the bench, you are still in that 2.5 to 3" range, you know the ammo/rifle combo is just not working well. Time to start tweaking.

Shooting with a typical bipod (harris or worst) is NOT easy. In fact, I have proven that I can take a 1/4 min rifle and turn it into a 1 min rifle with me and a Harris (I am getting much better). Shooting these type of bipods is very much a learnt skill.

With the F class type skipods (MPOD, Remple, Sinclair, Evo, etc), the stability rivals a true pedestal rest so accurate fire is waaaaaayyyy easier.

When your skill in both shooting and wind reading reaches the mechanical accuracy of the rifle, you will know when an errant shot is gear and not you. Now is the time to invest in "better" and again, you will see your skills improve.

See my website for lots of reloading info and tuning the 223. Reloading doesnt have to cost alot of money. Send me an email and I will forward a list of the gear I use - a combo of stuff that works, not the most expensive gear.

Good luck and keep watching that wind.

Jerry
 
I've been going over your site like crazy mystic. I can definitely see the benefits of a more stable pod and I have an mpod on my list. My brother has a led sled so ill try your suggestion and see just how consistent this setup is shooting as is. Thanks for the suggestion.
 
Not a fan of any type of shooting cradle cause they can be inconsistent in their follow through. A rifle should move during recoil, otherwise, it will bounce. The key is letting it move the same way each time. That is where "follow through" comes in. Just be aware of how you are set up for each shot. Location of the rifle/forend on the bags is very important. You want everything to be the same.

Comb height is also really important. That Savage stock will be low if you have a tall scope set up.

Like fitting shoes, do whatever is needed to make it comfy. When set up properly, your eye and hand position will not tire. You will not need to squirm from shot to shot to get back in the stock. Should feel absolutely natural. If not, change anything and everything.

In all forms of precision shooting, especially benchrest, the rests are so important some spend as much as the rifle, if not more.

Seek consistency, and practise, practise, practise, practise.... then practise somemore.

Good luck and enjoy

Jerry
 
Great advice (as usual) from Jerry. X2 on the skipod over a Harris. I got a MPOD from Jerry a while ago, and it might be the best $200 I spent on my rifle. It's harder to set the elevation on the MPOD compared to a Harris, but once you are setup it's miles ahead.
 
A Harris is all I've ever used. Am I missing something?
Could someone elaborate on the difficulties of shooting from a bipod? Maybe I could be doing it better.
Sorry to hijack.
 
Viper26 said:
A Harris is all I've ever used. Am I missing something?
Could someone elaborate on the difficulties of shooting from a bipod? Maybe I could be doing it better.
Sorry to hijack.
Click to expand...


For me anyways, I find a Harris bipod jumps and bounces around when recoiling. I shoot mostly from a wooden bench, and that combined with the Harris is like kryptonite for accuracy. A ski-pod recoils straight back in a very predictable way.
 
Hmmm... This jumping around thing sounds very familiar. Maybe an mpod should be higher on the list. My bipod isn't even a Harris, it's a cheap knock off.
 
yes, shooting from harris bipods is not without controversy. Loading them up with forward pressure means that upon recoil, the biopod pushes the rifle up as the gun heads towards the highest point in the arc created by leg movement. nothing wrong with a good shooting bag either.

Being honest with yourself an sticking within a budget is hard, and god knows getting wives to understand gun addiction is like trying to herd cats. Keep that in mind. It is often way better to make-do than to compromise and buy junk. I guarantee if you invest in junk, you will only end up spending more money in the end to fix the mistake of buying crap. Be wary of merchants that want to help solve your problems by selling you something.

I might suggest attending a provincial rifle association introductory day. Good stuff, and you will learn more in one day than you will in a hundred days here.
 
Yes there are better/nicer bipods than a Harris or a Harris clone, and don't let me or anyone else keep you from checking them out and perhaps even buying one.

*BUT*, this is not the source of your problems. Just because a Harris (or clone) is less pleasant to shoot with than a gorgeous $300 F-Class bipod, and just because it is more work to shoot one well (you have to re set up your position after each shot), does not mean that you can't get very good results with a Harris bipod.

Groups much smaller than 1 MOA can be shot with a Harris bipod.

If you aim the rifle well, and break the trigger without jerking or moving things, it doesn't really matter what happens after that (muzzle jump, bipod hop, etc)..... if all the other things are working right, you should be able to get a group much smaller than 1 MOA.

The ammo you are using is reasonably decent (if you were shooting Winchester white box or Federal American Eagle, you could expect groups anywhere from 1 MOA to 4 MOA).
 
Daniel is bang on here. If your rifle is jumping too much and not coming back to where you were aiming your problem is not you bipod. It is that your body is not behind the gun enough. Shift your body mass parallel to the barrel and directly behind it and you will solve your problem. Most folks are canted off to the left of center(for right handed shooters) so that the only mass you have behind the gun is your shoulder. And your shoulder is not enough meat to properly absorb the recoil. When I'm testing my position before shooting I make sure my left leg is parallel to the barrel. My right leg is cocked a little to allow proper breathing.
 
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