It's all about the ammo--
- Thread starter H4831
- Start date
ammo
I think this completely disproves the CGN myth that you have to see what your rifle "likes."
How then do you explain 2 identical rifles showing a tendency to like different ammos? By your logic every rifle should shoot the better ammos well. I have not found this to be the case, 22's in my mind have always been and will continue to be ammo sensitive. I have a GM muzzle weighted 22 incher that will print 1/2" groups at 50 with federal bulk, it is the only barrel I own capable of this. Why won't all barrels do that? Because 22 barrels are picky, period.
I think this completely disproves the CGN myth that you have to see what your rifle "likes."
How then do you explain 2 identical rifles showing a tendency to like different ammos? By your logic every rifle should shoot the better ammos well. I have not found this to be the case, 22's in my mind have always been and will continue to be ammo sensitive. I have a GM muzzle weighted 22 incher that will print 1/2" groups at 50 with federal bulk, it is the only barrel I own capable of this. Why won't all barrels do that? Because 22 barrels are picky, period.
- Location
- Thunder |Bay
I have a Norinco jw15 that I did a trigger job on, target crown and glass bedding. I got the odd flyer with blaser like you say. I added a muzzle weight, and after tuning it, the flyers disappeared with blaser. Weird. The rifle now shoots sub .5" at 50 meters reliably. It shoots other brands better too since I made the muzzle weight.
It's not weird, it is elementry, my dear Watson.
The weight helps to take the vibrations out of the barrel, just as pressure under the barrel at the front of the stock does. Rifles then shoot any good ammunition quite well and in general, usually improves the accuracy, period.
Forend pressure points have for many years been shown to be typically detrimental to consistency as the pressure is affected by barrel heating and expansion as well as atmospheric effects on wood stocks. Free floating is generally more conducive to good consistency. A suitable barrel weight placed at a vibration node creates a dampening effect on a floated barrel. The reason why rimfire BR shooters use tuners with floated barrels.
Too bad the bench rest and long range shooters like Warren Page didn't know this.
Page won the USA Open bench rest championship nine times, as well as many trophies won at 1,000 yards.
The only barrels he free floated were the bull barrels. Everything else he used had "considerable" pressure under the barrel at the front of the stock.
- Location
- Thunder |Bay
My point was that I expected the group size to shrink when the muzzle weight was tuned. I didn't expect the fliers to disappear. I expected the fliers to shrink by approximately the same amount as the group size.
I forgot to mention that the barrel was free floated and the bolt disassembled and polished internally (boy, did it need it!).
I forgot to mention that the barrel was free floated and the bolt disassembled and polished internally (boy, did it need it!).
Fliers may, or may not be the Ammo's fault. Even if it is the Ammo's fault, there's no reason to believe that a bad shot was packed every 1 in 5 from the factory.
As suggested, putting effort into tuning your rifle should improve it (doesn't always...but should) in general. There's not much tuning can do to improve inconsistent ammo! The more similar each round from a batch is, the more accurate the whole batch should appear...kind of a "relative" thing.
As suggested, putting effort into tuning your rifle should improve it (doesn't always...but should) in general. There's not much tuning can do to improve inconsistent ammo! The more similar each round from a batch is, the more accurate the whole batch should appear...kind of a "relative" thing.
A bit of nonsense here.
When the shooter is doing their part and gets five fliers
in a row, it IS the ammo.
I always viewed this as a semi-auto .22 thing they will have issues with one type of ammo or favour another type of ammo, when i'm looking for ammo my semi-auto .22 "likes" it's not about accuracy, its about what cycles flawlessely everytime mag after mag.
i've never had any feeding or cycling issues with any of my bolt .22's so they can shoot pretty well whatever I have on hand.
some interesting result's, american eagle was my favorite till the price stayed the same and they switched to 400 round bricks, I use blazer now.
Thank heavens you've used regular lingo...sometimes you're a tricky read.
As originally posted, one shooter thought the "flier" might be their own doing. Then it was suggested that 4 good, and one flier might be blamed on the ammo. Later suggested, by a 3rd poster that tuning the rifle placated the flier issue...
If the ammo is inconsistent as manufactured, then fliers are inevitable. Even a tuned rifle won't negate bad ammo. I think on this we agree...what I postulated, if the flier issue is ammo based, it's highly doubtful that manufacturers packaged them so that 1 in 5 were funky. Tuning a rifle won't compensate for 1 bad bullet. It will also take many rounds of the same batch/lot to determine if it's ammo, not shooter error.
Quite supportive of your 5 fliers=bad ammo concept...
Not so much nonsense, as common sense
EDIT:
I understand your confusion...my post was in direct response to the post above it. Ricksplace was surprised that tuning negated the "blazer flyer" effect. I was suggesting that tuning wouldn't negate the effect of inconsistently manufactured ammo...
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My experience mirrors kamlooky and h4831's tests, and I put very much faith into their findings. I have a factory target model 10/22, a very nice trigger and a cheap 6-18 scope that works pretty damn well.
I've found 40gr ae's never print over 4" @ 100y unless I fumble. They honestly were averaging about 2", now about 3". I think in all my cheapness, picking up dropped shells, wiping and shooting has damaged the barrel.
The 38gr AE's are consistently 4-5" junk, so is the blazers but I also find there's one out of very few that has a distinct difference in its report, and that one hits inches away from the norm. Absolutely night and day difference in its report.
The 36grain thunderbolts and 555 packs are only good for rapid firing at the moon. They are 6"+ In my gun.
I've found 40gr ae's never print over 4" @ 100y unless I fumble. They honestly were averaging about 2", now about 3". I think in all my cheapness, picking up dropped shells, wiping and shooting has damaged the barrel.
The 38gr AE's are consistently 4-5" junk, so is the blazers but I also find there's one out of very few that has a distinct difference in its report, and that one hits inches away from the norm. Absolutely night and day difference in its report.
The 36grain thunderbolts and 555 packs are only good for rapid firing at the moon. They are 6"+ In my gun.
The more I test, the more confusing it is!
I'm beginning to think that human error is a way more than what I had thought.
Otherwise, why the difference in the same ammo.
There was scope adjustments after the topp targets.
The four on the bottom left are Federal Champion. Hard to imagine the poor targets and the odd other flyer is the fault of the ammo.
The cheap, big box of Winchester Xpert did about as well as any today.
All shooting was at fifty yards.
I'm beginning to think that human error is a way more than what I had thought.
Otherwise, why the difference in the same ammo.
There was scope adjustments after the topp targets.
The four on the bottom left are Federal Champion. Hard to imagine the poor targets and the odd other flyer is the fault of the ammo.
The cheap, big box of Winchester Xpert did about as well as any today.
All shooting was at fifty yards.
H, the full moon is out in full swing.
It affects fishing, hunting, the wolves howling, and the activity the cops have too.
So, the gravity and moon have an affect on shot placement as well.
Yeah ya, eye know, but it is what it is.........
It affects fishing, hunting, the wolves howling, and the activity the cops have too.
So, the gravity and moon have an affect on shot placement as well.
Yeah ya, eye know, but it is what it is.........
