Winchester Hi Wall in 32-40

BSA Jack

BSA Jack

Regular
EE Expired
Rating - 100%
31   0   0
Location
Cypress Hills - Sask
Hope no one minds me asking for a little help with my bucket list on this forum here. In 1972 my Uncle gave me his Hi Wall Winchester that he bought new in the 1920's with original Winchester scope. That fall I got a tag for Elk and shot this Bull in pic below with it. I still remember it like yesterday. I was sitting on the side of a hill with a cigarette in my mouth when he stepped out of the trees below. I ate the cigarette :eek: and I put two shots into him at about 100 yards , one in the heart and one pretty excited one in his spine. How fast can you reload a Hi Wall, :ar15: very fast if your excited. Anyways they were my own reloads using jacketed bullets and smokeless. Over the years I shot an antelope and a mule deer too. Fast forward, I have never shot a white tail with it, I have the black powder bug again after shooting my new antique pistol the other day. Can anyone help me out with say 30 or so cast and sized 32-40 lead bullets. Beggars can't be choosers so what ever style of bullet you come up with is wonderful. I of course will pay the price and shipping. I really would like to shoot my Whitetail with black powder and this gun. Hope you enjoyed my little story and can help me out. Thank you for the PM's so far on this on this, Cheers John

403940844.jpg
 
Last edited:
I enjoyed that brief history. You have a classic rifle with some family history behind it. Nice. I don't have any bullets to fit your 32-40 but hopefully someone does.
 
Well I got the bullets (thank you much) Great people on here. Anyways am in the process of loading some black powder shells for the old girl, I have a question I know you guys that load lots of rifle ctg with BP can answer for me, I have standard federal large rifle primers and CCI and Winchester large Rifle Magnum primers. Is it a confirmed thing that magnum primers are a good idea.? Or are they a good idea at all with BP? In the old days I just loaded BP shells with what ever fit :) :confused: probably cil large pistol primers R:d: Thanks for advice, will give an update on shooting it in a while. Cheers John
 
I've been using Federal Large Rifle match primers in my .32-40 with good results. Magnum primers are certainly not necessary with black powder, but some of my rifles seem to like them.

Chris.
 
Hi Guys: I am posting a couple more pics of the old High Wall with an antelope and a Mule Deer I shot sometime in the 70's. Hope you like them. Anyways I do have a problem I need a little advice with. A very nice fella on CGN sent me some 32-40 and looks like 32 special type cast bullets to try with my black powder. So I have made some loads with from 35 to forty grains with both bullets, and my groups are very bad.:redface: First shot out of clean barrel seems not bad or close to center of target at 50 yds, in five shots the group may end up over a foot to almost two. Now I have no crimp die that I can use and no wad. ??? So I shot some of the reloads I had from the 70's, pulled a bullet and looks like 3031 and by weight a pretty warm load. with jacketed 170 gr. 32 special type bullets. These shot at least three inch groups all the way to a 100 yds. Do I give up on shooting a whitetail with BP and cast. and just load up some good old jacketed bullets an get atter. ;) Thanks John

404124863.jpg


404124865.jpg
 
Loading with black powder is quite different from smokeless. I would start with a soft lube like SPG or home made of 50% animal fat (lard) and 50% bees wax. I would use soft bullets; no more than 5% alloy in the lead. I would also use a drop tube about 2' long for loading the powder followed by light compression. Finally I would make up a blow tube and blow twice down the barrel between shots. Finally if you have the option use a mold with Loverin style bullets ie several narrow grooves rather than one or two wide ones as preferred by Keith. Almost forgot, make sure the bullets are seated to almost touching the rifling.

cheers mooncoon
 
Totally in accord with Mooncoon, and although I certainly would bow to his superior knowledge, I have to say that in my experience shooting lots of bp cartridges over the years, if you use the right lube and bullet just as he says, in a hunting situation you probably won't even have to bother with the blow tube, as I've shot long strings without doing that and maintained good accuracy. Target shooting though, the blow tube sure helps to keep the groups small.
 
Thanks a lot mooncoon, right away from what you say, I see a couple of things that I am not doing quite right, The best bullets I have are lovern style but hard cast and they are just tumble lubed, and I only have a few. I need to invest in a few things like a mold, a bullet sizing die, a crimping die. It will come together in time. thanks John
 
Don't give up yet! I don't imagine tumble lube alone will do it. And that lube, as stated above, must be BP compatible (no petroleum products).

At that, did you degrease your barrel & chamber before firing? If there is any standard oil in the barrel it'll turn into a tar-like substance and your groups will tend to get worse with successive shots. I degrease & use a light coat of olive oil down the barrel & action. Before storing for an extended period though you will want to re-lube with a regular gun oil.

Even hard cast, most bullet designs don't carry enough lube in the grooves for a rifle length barrel so depending on your situation, you may need to add a grease cookie and a cardboard wad. Check your muzzle after firing, there should be a star-shape of lube residue there if you have enough.

Everyone has their own recipes, personally (and with absolutely no criticism to anyone else's recipe) I like 50% beeswax & 50% olive oil personally, almost entirely because I always seem to have olive oil lying around (more so than other alternatives). I also find oilve oil seems to have some sort of cleansing properties with respect to BP, carries away the residue.



OH and you can simply pan lube them, once you are happy they are sized appropriately. Heat up (edit: use a double boiler!!) the beeswax and animal fat or olive oil or WHY until the ingredients blend together into a relatively clear and homogenous fluid, then pour them over the bullets (placed into a pan you have no intention of ever eating or cooking out of again) until the fluid covers the lube grooves & let stand until the mixture sets; I use a case to punch them out of the hardened lube before it completely sets (or it gets too brittle).
 
Last edited:
Thank you guys, I think the lube and method of lubing is probabley my main problem. These bullets I am trying are not sized , I don't know what to think about that. Below is pic of two bullet types. one on left is what I think is best and as Mooncoon says maybe the best with the extra lube groves. it weighs about 165 and mikes about .322 unsized, looks to me like the old 32-40 style bullet.? the other is about 170, and .323 to .324. and gas check style. When you guys suggest a drop tube for powder, is the whole idea to get proper even compression of powder? With 40 grains (by weight) and seating bullet to the rifling, I am compressing it quite a bit?? maybe too much powder? maybe too much compression? I am going to address the lube thing before I try any more and my good friend that sent me the bullets says he will make me some soft ones next time he gets out the pot. :) so will get the old girl to shoot sometime here, please give me more advice if you like. John PS-- I like idea of grease cookie or wad too, another good guy on here would punch me out some wads.

404133433.jpg
 
the drop tube sort of compresses the powder and in my 38-56 it makes a difference of about 3/16" compared to powder just poured in. While the books say it does not need further compression, I like just a light compression as well. I also use a card wad cut from a milk carton as a separation between powder and bullet which in theory protects the base of the bullet. I am not convinced it is necessary when using 3F or even 2F powderj but costs nothing to do. I have a cutter that I put in the drill press and using spinning.

If you over compress (think lots and lots of pressure, in my experience most of the bullets will shoot low. I think in effect the powder goes from being 3F to Col Hawker's punting powder ie one big lump

cheers mooncoon
 
Great thread and pics! I can't contribute but I sure can encourage you to pursue this project. It is going to great when you get it shooting as well as you want.
 
Just another tip if anybody is interested, which I picked up somewhere along the way. I also used to use olive oil but then switched to jojoba oil, which while expensive, is supposed to most nearly duplicate the properties of the old sperm oil. Works great for me, and I also use it as a protectant on metal parts including the bore so that petroleum never touches my bp guns. A lot of guys, after cleaning use petroleum in their bores, then clean well before shooting, but I figure why not do it like the old timers did, and not have to worry about getting the bore squeeky clean before shooting.
 
mooncoon said:
the drop tube sort of compresses the powder and in my 38-56 it makes a difference of about 3/16" compared to powder just poured in. While the books say it does not need further compression, I like just a light compression as well. I also use a card wad cut from a milk carton as a separation between powder and bullet which in theory protects the base of the bullet. I am not convinced it is necessary when using 3F or even 2F powderj but costs nothing to do. I have a cutter that I put in the drill press and using spinning.

If you over compress (think lots and lots of pressure, in my experience most of the bullets will shoot low. I think in effect the powder goes from being 3F to Col Hawker's punting powder ie one big lump

cheers mooncoon
Click to expand...
Wow mooncoon, your last statement on compression. is exactly what I was noticing I would have a couple out of the group sort of where I thought it should be ( by the jacketed loads I shot) and then these low flyers, like almost a foot low. I pulled a bullet this morning , easy to do no crimp basicaly just pushed in and measured compression, not good :eek: The powder is solid like a cake about 3/8 inch of compression to be exact. I have really learned something. This is such a reverlation to an old guy that thought he knew every thing ;) Yeah right:) anyways in my chain thought-- if you compressed the powder more you would build pressure and shoot high :redface:. It all makes sense too , when I cleaned the old girl, terrible fouling black, black worse than I ever saw ( because the powder is in a cake, not burning right ????) Thank you again if you guys bear with me, you will teach an old guy how to load accurate BP ctg's :D
 
Perhaps another quick note from mistakes that I have made. I tried breach seating a bullet and being frugal (perhaps even cheap) I punched some over powder wads out of shoe inner soles. That resulted in case separations in the middle of the case and in some cases the forward part of the shell was dragged into the throat of the barrel. I believe what happens is that with a compressible over powder wad and compressed powder (not necessarily heavily compressed) the powder at the bottom of the shell pushes the front portion forward when burning. The front powder grips the case briefly and drags it forward.

In a normal shell or with an incompressible wad (like a wonder wad) the flame is able to either flow around the center mass or simply begin consuming the entire powder mass before the bullet starts moving and for that reason does not drag the front half of the shell casing forward. In a smokeless shell when you have excessive head space, the case separation is just ahead of the web of the shell but these separations from the compressible wad are quite different.

You can remove the neck and front portion of the shell by using a solid brass ramrod and driving a lead slug backwards down the barrel

cheers mooncoon
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom