When is using Deadly Force justified?

B

BDD

New member
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Location
Los Angeles
Hope to hear from criminal lawyers and policemen. Or judges.

Besides the obvious scenarios..e.g. you're confronted by armed gunmen with their guns pointed at your face. Where their intent is fairly obvious at that point. And they also state their intent "...time to die...".

What if...group of teens break into a town home in the middle of the night, managed to deactivate your alarm, they are already approaching your bedroom, all is dark and you manage to get a hold of your firearm. Before that you got the police on the phone but were told to let the police handle it..that they are on the way. You believe you saw metal reflections on their person. But in the dark you can't tell if it's reflection s from outside light, clothing, knife or gun. Are you justified to take a shot with the intent to just incapacitate them....what if you end up hitting them in a vital location? Killing them on the spot or on the way to the hospital.
 
remember the wording in the Criminal Code- REASONABLE and NECESSARY force is justified.

There isn't a police officer, criminal lawyer or judge that can make that decision for you. After the incident, all they can do is try to piece together what happened and decide if you were acting as a reasonable person would under the circumstances.

Another point: pointing a gun is intent to cause grevious bodily harm or death, regardless of where you INTEND to hit your subject. It doesn't matter if you're going for the leg wound or the centre-mass kill shot, if you're using a gun, it's with the intent to go to the highest level of force available.
 
TROLL ALERT

Out of courtesy though, there is no trivializing deadly force! People's lives are changed instantly. The threat must be real, immediate, and unquestionable. Everyone who has received hunter safety education knows not shoot at what they think is something.
 
Report sent to mods, this guy is an anti troll. Look at his other thread. Pretty good for just joining and two back to back trolling threads.
 
ALLS London said:
remember the wording in the Criminal Code- REASONABLE and NECESSARY force is justified.

There isn't a police officer, criminal lawyer or judge that can make that decision for you. After the incident, all they can do is try to piece together what happened and decide if you were acting as a reasonable person would under the circumstances.

Another point: pointing a gun is intent to cause grevious bodily harm or death, regardless of where you INTEND to hit your subject. It doesn't matter if you're going for the leg wound or the centre-mass kill shot, if you're using a gun, it's with the intent to go to the highest level of force available.
Click to expand...

Thanks for commenting London. A lot of this is common sense. That we better be sure the intruders were caring a deadly weapon when moving towards you.

Can I ask you about your background? I'm guessing you're neither a judge, lawyer or policeman. Just law abiding gun owner? :)

Is "deadly force" talked about when you go for your PAL and transport licences? I heard you must take a class or two?
 
Guns in Canada are ONLY for sport shooting and hunting "if you defend your self with one you are going to court, no ifs ands or buts"

PAL and ATT dont talk about thoughs things as it is not their intent, if you do shoot someone in self defence "good luck as you will need it" you will be charged and go through a very large court battle, that could lead in jail time.
 
Dsiwy said:
Guns in Canada are ONLY for sport shooting and hunting "if you defend your self with one you are going to court, no ifs ands or buts"

PAL and ATT dont talk about thoughs things as it is not their intent, if you do shoot someone in self defence "good luck as you will need it" you will be charged and go through a very large court battle, that could lead in jail time.
Click to expand...

While the reason for owning a firearm and getting an PAL cannot generally be self defence, there is nothing prohibiting you from using one to defend your life from imminent death or grievous bodily harm.

There are plenty of cases in Canada where someone has used a firearm in self defence and never seen the inside of a courtroom, so it is a fallacy to say with certainty you will be charged or have to defend your actions in court. There are also plenty of cases that are not cut and dry and you can expect it refereed to the courts in such a case to decide wether it was justified or not.

Case in point is this year in Calgary;

http://www.calgarysun.com/2012/08/23/self-defence-ruled-in-calgary-home-invasion-death

Self defence ruled in Calgary home invasion death

No charges will be laid in the fatal shooting of a Calgary man after his death was deemed the result of self defence.

About 9 a.m. on Jan. 14 of this year, cops were called to a possible break-in in the 100 block of Erin Circle S.E.

Several people were in the home at the time, and as officers were removing them, they found the body of 35-year-old Joseph Lesley Talbot, who had been shot to death.

One person was arrested and questioned, but later released, said homicide Staff Sgt. Doug Andrus.

On Thursday, police said no one will be charged in Talbot’s death after the Crown prosecutor’s office deemed the incident a non-culpable homicide, meaning there was no legal wrongdoing, such as in the case of self defence.

“The determination is made in conjunction with the Crown prosecutor’s office, which speaks to whether the amount of force is reasonable given the situation,” said Andrus.

Police say on the day of Talbot’s death, he went into the home with a knife and was shot with a long rifle after cornering a friend.

“In this case we had a male who forcibly entered a residence through the front door, he confronted an occupant inside residence in his bedroom brandishing a knife,” said Andrus.

“The occupant of the home had no means of escape.

“As a result, this makes the use of a firearm more reasonable.”

Talbot and the person who shot him were “lifelong friends,” said Andrus.

“We believe that they were involved in a long-term dispute.”

Non-culpable homicides are unusual occurrences, said Andrus, adding the last cases were in 2010.

Lorne Kvale, 55, was found unconscious outside Chelsea’s Pub and Grill in the city’s northeast in March of that year and later died.

Police told his sister that Kvale saw a man driving erratically as they were leaving the pub and he opened the passenger door and pulled the man’s girlfriend out, thinking the driver might be impaired.

It was later learned the man was struggling with the car’s standard transmission.

During a fight, Kvale was punched in the face.

It was determined the man was not intending to kill Kvale, but just protect his girlfriend and no charges were laid.

Also in March of that year, 40-year-old Dean Wilde was stabbed during a fight in an alley in the 4200 block of 9 Ave. S.W. that may have been spawned by a drug deal gone bad.

No charges were laid in that case.
Click to expand...

That being said, this is as much as I will feed the Troll.
 
Antis really have nothing better to do with their time than to go fishing . . . :rolleyes:

BDD - If you are in your rural home in bed and it is invaded in the middle of the night by a group of teens (or anyone for that matter) as you say, and you manage to get out a call for help from police - it is a simple decision you have to make and it may be different for everyone . . .

You may:

A) Opt to attempt to defend yourself and your family from the invaders by as much force as it takes and by whatever means you have available to you (not sure why you specifically need this to be a gun) then face our legal system to explain yourself until proven either guilty or bankrupt.

B) Opt to pull the covers over your head and wait for police assistance with hopes that they are not on the other side of town and can find your house and can locate and detain the assailants already in your home within the 30 seconds or so it would take invaders to find your bedroom or those of your kids.

This is the country you live in, the politicians you voted for and the laws you abide by. Civilized Society comes at a cost and in our case that is citizens living in more fear of our legal system than a criminal who would rob, rape or murder them. Good luck with your choice . . .
 
Blessed said:
Antis really have nothing better to do with their time than to go fishing . . . :rolleyes:

BDD - If you are in your rural home in bed and it is invaded in the middle of the night by a group of teens (or anyone for that matter) as you say, and you manage to get out a call for help from police - it is a simple decision you have to make and it may be different for everyone . . .

You may:

A) Opt to attempt to defend yourself and your family from the invaders by as much force as it takes and by whatever means you have available to you (not sure why you specifically need this to be a gun) then face our legal system to explain yourself until proven either guilty or bankrupt.

B) Opt to pull the covers over your head and wait for police assistance with hopes that they are not on the other side of town and can find your house and can locate and detain the assailants already in your home within the 30 seconds or so it would take invaders to find your bedroom or those of your kids.

This is the country you live in, the politicians you voted for and the laws you abide by. Civilized Society comes at a cost and in our case that is citizens living in more fear of our legal system than a criminal who would rob, rape or murder them. Good luck with your choice . . .
Click to expand...

I used "gun" in my scenario because this is a gun forum. Obviously, if you had to defend you and/or your family, and there were only seconds you'd grab anything within reach. Tennis racket, chair...etc.

Appreciate your comment and refraining descending to the level of a few of the other forum members.

I think we've spent enough time on this topic.
 
Doesnt it also lay out very clearly in the PAL course that even pointing a firearm at anyone constitutes a criminal offence, loaded or otherwise? So like someone else has mentioned, no matter what happens you will be charged with an offence and will likely not have to worry about using deadly force visa vie a firearm again, because you will not have them anymore.
 
I honestly think that we need more trolls visiting us, maybe they will eventually turn over to the "dark side" lol bring'em on I say.

I'm going to feed him/her a little more though - my advice, through other peoples' experiences, is to NEVER shoot at someone that has their back turned to you and running away :) I'm not a lawyer, judge, or police officer, but I think that's some sound advice !

Speaking of judges.... I really do wonder if there is a judge on this forum.... maybe blaxsun is a judge ;) common man tell us the truth!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom