Need help finding an Enfield from a specific Canadian Regiment

David604

David604

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Hello folks,

I'm fairly new to collecting older military arms. I have set myself on the task of finding an Enfield rifle from a specific Canadian Regiment that served in WW2. I have already looked through the various stickies and websites out there but I think either the information I am looking for is not there, or I am simply not looking in the right place.

Another member on here mentioned there may be some matching of serial numbers with certain regiments, but suggested I seek out help. Perhaps this is a bit of an impossible task, but having read through some other postings on this milsurp forum, it seems like there are some very knowledgeable folks on here that might be able to steer me in the right direction.


David
 
remember, rifles didnt even stay with the army that issued them, nevermind the unit. if they were damaged or broken, they were sent to the nearest armourer who may have been brit or aussie, and one was given to replace it from the nearest chain of supply (again maybe brit or aussie)

mean while the damaged one was repaired or sent further away depending on what needed fixing, and eventually made its way back up the supply chain of what ever country got it repaired.
 
Good point scott585. I suppose the best way would be if the rifle had an oral history passed down with it, but that seems unlikely these days, and such a thing would probably be with a family/person that would not sell it.

Thanks for the information found in both replies, it is good to know this before getting one's hopes up.
 
Depends what regiment you are looking for. When I lived in Nfld, I saw several SMLEs with the distinctive "NFLD" Butt Marking Disc.

Only one had an actual tale with it; it was still owned by the man who "liberated" it personally in 1919!

But there are a FEW in circulation, just about ALL chopped down for moose guns but still with that magical disc.
 
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One possible source to mention here. Many of the Regiments or the present day Units that absorbed them have Regimental Museums. Some of these Museums have the daily diaries and other papers belonging to the Regiment that you are seeking information on. It is possible that the day(s) the Regiment received their Small Arms was recorded in the Diary.

If you were really lucky, there might even be Armourer's Reports or Lists that record the serial numbers of these Small Arms, but I would not hold your breath on it. Not a whole lot of these records have survived.

Before WWI and even during the first part of WWI, Canadian Rifles were generally marked to the Regiment by information stamped on the wood of the butt stock. One of the big reasons for doing away with this practice is that a captured rifle could give information to the Enemy about the troops that they were facing.

Good Luck.

.
 
Thanks smellie for the ray of hope!

Thanks buffdog, I will follow those suggestions, my father is in Ontario and could probably do some calling since he has always had a keen interest in that Regiment's history.

tbhupe - The Algonquin Regiment. I had three great uncles serve in that Regiment during WW2. I would settle for something non-SMLE, but I figure if I was to find anything it would be that.
 
I remember a pic in WW1 of battlefield pick-ups stacked like cordwood in repair centres. I should imagine the same thing happened in WW2 with No4's. They were repaired and re-issued. most likely to the next unit who needed them.
Of course those marking discs disappeared in 1915, though some were re-introduced post war
 
I saw an interesting No.4 sunday night at my club range.

It was a No.4 (not sure of manufacturer) that had been accurized for target shooting. Had a target sling but was otherwise an intact rifle. On the receiver was stamped for Nova Scotia Highlanders. It was just the acronym, NSH...forget the rest.

Very nice rifle, for sale at a price that I normally wouldn't hesitate on. Only problem is I'm still half done roofing my house and it's getting late in the fall and I need to buy 20 bundles of shingles...and then it's Christmas. Damn...
 
That would be a very nice piece, although during ww2 and until 1954 they were known as the North Nova Scotia Highlanders. I'd like to see that No. 4 though!
 
I met a guy who said he had an RCD marked LB No4. I offered to buy it from him, but he said it was passed down from his father. The father wasn't military but I understand the sentimental attachment.
 
JRoche said:
That would be a very nice piece, although during ww2 and until 1954 they were known as the North Nova Scotia Highlanders. I'd like to see that No. 4 though!
Click to expand...

My bad. Now that you mention it, it may have been NNH... for "North Nova Highlanders...". I may call him and find out, see if it actually sold...:rolleyes:
 
I'm going to be the wet blanket (not the wet spot).

The Algonquins formed and trained and recruited until Jun 43 when they went overseas. Leaving from Debert. If anything was regimentally marked in Debert, it would have been highly illegal. The Depot's stores were likely pooled or certainly returned when the unit moved on. Not much chance of identifying or finding a specific rifle there. After shipping out and more training in England, the Algonquins crossed the Normandy beaches in Jul 44. Their first engagement was in and around Falaise, then quickly onwards to Belgium and Netherlands. Their battles in Holland and into Germany were pure slogging with heavy casualties and suffering.

From my reading of Terry Copps' books on the Canadian Army in late 44 and 45, the units were mostly replacements and old guys filtering in from brigade and division manning pools. The battalion of hundreds that landed in 44 might have had a couple dozen originals by 45. The equipment tables were well known and stuff was issued forward, was used, got broken or lost, circulated back and the cycle worked. The kit carried into France in 44, especially in the companies was probably turned over three or four times by 45. After a battle, those proverbial rest and refit periods were when the storemen exchanged what was broken with new stuff, and new guys arrived reasonably fully kitted.

When the Armistace was signed, there was a massive 'down tools' process to clean, repair, tag and turn in all equipment as fast as the occupation duties were fulfilled. The war was over, yes there was still unfinished business between the Allies and Germany, but humanitarian relief and fraternization distractions were more important. As the repatriation formulas were published, the guys with the most service started to filter away. Whoever was left, finished up collapsing the regiments. The Dutch and Belges got a tremendous amount of free equipment, and comparitively little came back to Canada. Why not? Because the war was over, and the Depots at home were well stocked with new or good kit.
 
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Thanks again to everyone who pitched in. I've learned some things I never knew.

In the light of this being next to impossible, perhaps I could get an opinion on what model of Enfield I should be looking to purchase that would be period for the Regiment while it was in Europe.
 
Prior to early/mid-1943 a No1 MkIII. After early/mid-1943 a No4 Mk1 or No4 Mk1*. Timelines on transition from the older No1 MkIII and the replacement No4 are a bit hazy and would vary among units. Cdn troops landing in Sicily in summer 1943 are pictured with No4s.
 
maple_leaf_eh said:
I'm going to be the wet blanket (not the wet spot).

The Algonquins formed and trained and recruited until Jun 43 when they went overseas. Leaving from Debert. If anything was regimentally marked in Debert, it would have been highly illegal. The Depot's stores were likely pooled or certainly returned when the unit moved on. Not much chance of identifying or finding a specific rifle there. After shipping out and more training in England, the Algonquins crossed the Normandy beaches in Jul 44. Their first engagement was in and around Falaise, then quickly onwards to Belgium and Netherlands. Their battles in Holland and into Germany were pure slogging with heavy casualties and suffering.

From my reading of Terry Copps' books on the Canadian Army in late 44 and 45, the units were mostly replacements and old guys filtering in from brigade and division manning pools. The battalion of hundreds that landed in 44 might have had a couple dozen originals by 45. The equipment tables were well known and stuff was issued forward, was used, got broken or lost, circulated back and the cycle worked. The kit carried into France in 44, especially in the companies was probably turned over three or four times by 45. After a battle, those proverbial rest and refit periods were when the storemen exchanged what was broken with new stuff, and new guys arrived reasonably fully kitted.

When the Armistace was signed, there was a massive 'down tools' process to clean, repair, tag and turn in all equipment as fast as the occupation duties were fulfilled. The war was over, yes there was still unfinished business between the Allies and Germany, but humanitarian relief and fraternization distractions were more important. As the repatriation formulas were published, the guys with the most service started to filter away. Whoever was left, finished up collapsing the regiments. The Dutch and Belges got a tremendous amount of free equipment, and comparitively little came back to Canada. Why not? Because the war was over, and the Depots at home were well stocked with new or good kit.
Click to expand...

this is also interesting to webbing design nerds as the dutch and belgians perfected the 37 pattern stuff and they also made it compatible with american style webbing
 
David604 said:
Thanks smellie for the ray of hope!

Thanks buffdog, I will follow those suggestions, my father is in Ontario and could probably do some calling since he has always had a keen interest in that Regiment's history.

tbhupe - The Algonquin Regiment. I had three great uncles serve in that Regiment during WW2. I would settle for something non-SMLE, but I figure if I was to find anything it would be that.
Click to expand...

Been a member for some time now. In my time with A Coy in North Bay, I have never seen nor heard of any specific kit that the vets brought back. We don't have an official museum as we have no real space for one. There are a few vets still kicking about in the North Bay and Parry Sound area, check with the Legion branches there and see if they can dig something up. You're unlikely to find a rifle but they have lots of articles and pictures kicking about that you are unlikely to find anywhere else.

I also have access to our official history book written by one of the Company commanders at the time, Maj GL Cassidy. It's called 'Warpath' and is available, but not cheap. Let me know if you're interested.

Tyler
 
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