Questions about classification

[TRich]

So I know the RCMP have really no rhyme or reason for the way the classify rifles, that is quite evident, but there is something I have been thinking about for the last few days. The Valmet Hunter is an AK variant and it is non-restricted by name, by the definition of variant wouldn't the Israeli Galil be a derivative of the Valmet not the AK? thus making it a non-restricted rifle (based on barrel length of course). I dunno just something I have been thinking about, probably a dumb idea. Would be cool to get them though.

 

[TRaTSeRiF]

Interesting question. I'd probably want to get my hands on one if I don't go for an 858 instead. My guess is that Galil's prohib by name.

 

[tiriaq]

The non-prohibited Valmets are named specifically. The Galil rifles aren't named Valmets.

 

[enefgee]

The non-prohibited Valmets are named specifically. The Galil rifles aren't named Valmets.

Even though Tikka sold the Valmet equipment to IMI to build the Galil, they're totally different guns - trust me, I'm with the government.

It's one of those bizarre things about the OIC prohibs - they're very specific and don't allow for any interpretation. If you took a Valmet M78 receiver and mounted every other part from a Russian AK on it - if the barrel length was 18.5 + inches, it would be unrestricted - less then 18.5 would be restricted. Despite the fact that the gun is 99% Russian. This is why they get into "parts counting" in the US, the laws in the US are less specific to the receiver, and more about the whole gun.

 

[TRich]

So basically save my money and find a Valmet haha

 

[enefgee]

Yup, the Hunter model in the most common calibre (308) typically goes for $4K. The M78 in the least common calibres (5.56 & 7.62x39) go for what the owner wants for them. I know someone who has an M78 in 7.62x39 (incredibly rare) who has been offered (and turned down) $6K. So, in the immortal words of Sponge Bob "Good Luck with that".

 

[Waynetheman]

I think the galil is a named prohib.

 

[enefgee]

I think the galil is a named prohib.

I'm pretty sure it's a listed AK variant, I haven't looked though and you may be right - I try to avoid those pages, they're depressing.

 

[Leonidas]

In europe the valmet hunter was marketed under a different name but is otherwise identical... Anyone know if they would be/are unrestricted as well?

 

[TRaTSeRiF]

In europe the valmet hunter was marketed under a different name but is otherwise identical... Anyone know if they would be/are unrestricted as well?

I'd bet a good amount of $$$ that it would get classified as an AK variant even though it's the same gun.

 

[m6tlogistics]

prohibited by name-logic has little correlation to classification

 

[AK]

I'd bet a good amount of $$$ that it would get classified as an AK variant even though it's the same gun.

No, Valmet Hunter is explicitly excluded along with the M78. There have been several on the EE usually in the Black Rifles category. They go for much lower prices because they don't have the "assault rifle" look to them, and dressing them up as such is completely doable but extraordinarily expensive because the parts are very hard to come by. One member here did exactly this with his Hunter and made a Valmet M76 copy. Probably cost him as much as buying an M78.

In my opinion the Valmet is about as far removed from the AK as the 858 is. Certainly appearance-wise anyhow. If your goal is to own an "AK" in terms of functionality then this route is for you. If all you're after is appearance the CZ series will do that with far more availability and options, and FAR less expense.

 

[TRaTSeRiF]

No, Valmet Hunter is explicitly excluded along with the M78.

Yes, but if it's marketed under a different name and it was the exact same gun, they'd still make it prohibited because they can.

 

[enefgee]

Yes, but if it's marketed under a different name and it was the exact same gun, they'd still make it prohibited because they can.

That wouldn't surprise me - after all, the Valmet Hunter says "Valmet Hunter" right on it, and the identical gun sold under another name doesn't. The stupidity of bureaucracy knows no limits.

 

[dahs]

Only reason the Valmets aren't prohib is because the gov't gave them to the Indians. And since we don't dare offend the Indians they stayed N/R.

 

[fireball]

Not all Hunters say "Valmet Hunter" on them, I couldn't tell you why. I would suspect the ones made by Sako weren't marked.

The 3 threaded holes on the outer reciever and the small milled grove under the reciever are the only real tells for identifying the unmarked ones that have been converted.

By the time my is done I'd have to sell it for $4k just to break even.

 

[TRich]

Not all Hunters say "Valmet Hunter" on them, I couldn't tell you why. I would suspect the ones made by Sako weren't marked.

The 3 threaded holes on the outer reciever and the small milled grove under the reciever are the only real tells for identifying the unmarked ones that have been converted.

By the time my is done I'd have to sell it for $4k just to break even.

I've seen your thread with the pics, it looks awesome that's what I want to eventually do when I have enough cash (and can actually find a valmet )

 

[enefgee]

Not all Hunters say "Valmet Hunter" on them, I couldn't tell you why. I would suspect the ones made by Sako weren't marked.

The 3 threaded holes on the outer reciever and the small milled grove under the reciever are the only real tells for identifying the unmarked ones that have been converted.

By the time my is done I'd have to sell it for $4k just to break even.

By the time yours is done you'll be able to sell it for at least $5K after all, it's one of a tiny number of real AK's that aren't banned. After all someone offered a guy I know $6K for a 7.62x39 M78.