What is the smallest in 22 to 25 caliber?

I re-read your NEEDS and they have all given good advice,

for those not just wanting to plink or teach then a ACCURATE CHOICE would be the 22 PPC, or the 20 vartarg, or maybe the 222 forerunner ?? of the 6ppc as ONLY ACCURATE GUNS ARE FUN, if you get a 20 vartarg (I never shot one but know a couple of guys who now own 6ppc as they fell in love with real one-hole groups ) : )

Jefferson
 
archie_james_c said:
A reduced load 223 is the answer! Then dad can stoke it with 62 TTSXs for Deer season :D
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Wouldn't you have to "AI" it first?
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More can be learned with a .22 LR at 4 - 5 cents per round than even the cheapest reloading.
You suggested the .22 WMR which is close to the cost of reloading the cheapest centrefire.
My grandson went from .22 LR to .22-250 Rem to .243 Win as an 11 year old.
He has tried the .25-06 and the .260 Rem.
Never underestimate the value of the .22 LR
 
Cleftwynd said:
Just looking for very low recoil, low noise/muzzle blast centerfire rifle to play with a lot with my wife and son.
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I don't know why you chose 22 to 25 cal...

Don't rule out the .17 Fireball... .17 calibers have extremely low recoil, low blast...
 
I have many 22LR's, and my son at 8 yo has two of his own and has shot thousands of rounds, I want a small step up, in something "we" can reload. The 22 wmr, which I have a few of, cannot be reloaded. It's a father son thing, some of you will understand that.

I also want a classic caliber in a classic rifle.
 
Okay, you want a classic caliber in a classic rifle. You want virtually no recoil, and low muzzle blast. You want cheap reloads and you want all this to make a young person's first experience and early days of training enjoyable and instructive. May I recommend one of my favourite cartridges, the 32-20. My daughters have shot various guns of mine but their definite favourite is the 32-20. 115 grain cast lead bullet (cheap bullets) at the traditional 1,190 fps makes for no recoil and a quieter, more pleasant shooting experience. If you want to stoke it up later on, you can crank that bullet out the barrel at the traditional 'Hi Velocity' level of 1,600 fps. It is available in several different modern lever guns. At the top of the list would be the Browning Model 53. Not in production, but they come up for sale on a regular basis and are the cadillac of modern 32-20's. There are also recent runs of the Marlin Model 1894 classic and modern Winchester/Miroku versions, not to mention offerings by Uberti. The 32-20 will be much quieter than the 223 or even the 218 Bee (although that is a classic caliber as well and if you could get it in the Browning limited edition Model 65, you would have yourself a smashingly sweet combination). Of all the 'lighter' centerfire cartridges for small game and getting young people started, the 32-20 is my favourite, bar none.
 
Hmm, didn't look into that one, maybe I have too many preconceived notions about what I was looking for, that's why I love this forum.

Thanks to all for the advice and experienced help! I am not jumping into something too quick so I will keep reading what all of you have said and pay more attention it.

Gotta love this hobby eh?
 
Cleftwynd said:
I have many 22LR's, and my son at 8 yo has two of his own and has shot thousands of rounds, I want a small step up, in something "we" can reload. The 22 wmr, which I have a few of, cannot be reloaded. It's a father son thing, some of you will understand that.

I also want a classic caliber in a classic rifle.
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My .22 Hornet has never failed to do what I needed of it. It's not that hard to find, has essentially no recoil and, frankly, is not that hard to reload. (I use 45gr Sierra over 8.9 gr of Win 296 for a tack-driver.) Yup, the others like the .218 Bee, the .25-20, the .32-30, the .222 Rem and the .223 are all good rounds - nothing wrong with them, but I have a Hornet.
 
One thing to consider, many of the suggestions given thus far send the bullet at velocities greater than the speed of sound, and therefore generate a real 'Crack'. The sub sonic 32-20 does not have that crack. (as long as you keep to the original velocity ..... if you load it up, then you'll get the super sonic 'crack'.
 
One for you to consider is Ruger's Model 77 Hawk-eye Compact. With a 12 1/2" LOP, 16.5" bbl, only just over 6 pounds, and chambered in the extremely extremely versatile .223Remington, it's a match made in gun heaven.

Handload what power level you want from light plinking to deer busting(not legal where I live nor would I), and your son can get lots of cheap costing, real world off hand marksmanship practice with bulk 55grain FMJ ammo already rolled.

Is there a better choice? I think not. Good Luck what ever your choice, and make sure he makes every trigger squeeze count. RTS
 
Cleftwynd said:
I have many 22LR's, and my son at 8 yo has two of his own and has shot thousands of rounds, I want a small step up, in something "we" can reload. The 22 wmr, which I have a few of, cannot be reloaded. It's a father son thing, some of you will understand that.

I also want a classic caliber in a classic rifle.
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That last line ruled out something that came to mind: The 5.7 MMJ - it is a necked down 30 carbine case to shoot .224 bullets. Ballistics are impressive for it's size, but if it fit the sentimental bill that I can totally relate to, might have been fine. I retain many memories of shooting with my dad, but we never reloaded, it's something I began doing several years ago by myself. Sentimentality although sometimes conflicting with practicality is something worth more than whatever savings could be generated otherwise: It is the perpetual development and cherishing of memories - adds more meaning to being alive. It is a shame that this lost art, a large part of any relationship not just being a mom or dad, is often neglected in this materialistic society, that leaves many kids by the wayside to be indoctrinated by a TV, bureaucracy or some other clot. Enjoy this time with your boy, a few blinks and he will be a young man. :cheers:
 
My dad got me into reloading at about 12 yrs old, I have been reloading ever since. Funny thing is, he has all the equipment, but has never loaded a round to this day!

However my father and I are still making memories luckily, it would be nice if that never ended. Now I have a young boy and find myself in the unique position of being both a student, and a mentor. Life couldn't be better!
 
One thing to remember when considering calibers, any caliber that requires a jacketed bullet will be more expensive than calibers that can use cast bullets. This may be a factor if you plan to do a lot of shooting with it.
 
I never got into casting bullets, or boolits as I recently learned that term. But since I have several hundred pounds of WW lead maybe I should, would add another dimension to the hobby!
 
I own several 223's and for reloading, it is so cheap and so many choices available. My wife, daughter and son were all trained on the 223 because the ammo is so cheap and there is not any real recoil.

When I go to the range with my wife....the 223 is always the first and the last, but also the one with the most empty brass too!
 
I have a 204 ruger. I like the gun but it isn't that quiet in my mind i think its about as loud as my 243win. I not sure about your prov hunting regs but here the smallest calibre legal for hunting is the 243/6mm (in sask). The biggest complaint I have about the 204 is finding ammo outside of the bigger centers.
 
I started both my boys off with good air pistols to learn trigger control, then to air rifles and once they were 9 to 10 years old they were shooting my .22 lr

As each reached age 11 each got to take a moose and before those seasons began, we loaded a 7X57 scoped lightweight rifle and each of them shot a lot of rounds in position shooting as well as off the bench every weekend.

Come the opening morning for each, there were no surprises, just clean kills each, and happy kids.

On graduation from highschool each got a .22 lr BRNO deluxe with a decent scope. On post secondary graduation one got a Sako Mannlicher 30/06 while the other got a stainless synthetic stocked Winchester 7mm Remington Mag, accurized by me. The youngest is nearly 40 now and oldest is over that mark. Both still shoot the guns I bought them. One has a 9 year old boy and just bought him a Browning Micro X-bolt in .308 and the kid put 40 reduced rounds through it the first day at the range getting 1.5 to 2 inch groups, wants to shoot a pile more.

So a lot depends on how you are going to be able to hunt with them, what you are going to hunt and I would not bite off too much at once but try a similar route with the .22lr but do not go for a cheap one. I would get a decent single shot or magazine repeater in bolt action and let them have fun plinking, and bringing target accuracy in for short training etc. sessions.
 
My boy is well past the 22LR and using a 410 a lot as said earlier in the thread, he has 2 rimfires and 2 410's. this is about getting into centerfire and reloading. A small step up from rimfire, but not into deer gun territory yet.

Looks like it is going to be a 22 Hornet from cooper. From there he can use my 243, or maybe get a 223 to play with.

Thanks everyone for all the help and advice!
 
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