regular barrel vs heavy profile

[easyrider604]

ok so this what i am thinking about getting after reading your posts. I will get bolt action Savage MarkII with regular barrel, even though i would really like to get a semi auto. I think it will be better for hunting squirrels, easier to carry around, better to practice precision shooting with, and it is the first couple of shots that will count.

It seem to me it is not worth getting bull barrel if it is going to be bolt action rifle. How many shot can i make with a bolt action rifle with a regular barrel before accuracy will be affected? what do you think? thanks.

Good choice on the MKII F or G. My MKIIF shoots very much like my CZ Style, which also shoots like my CZ Varmint. In fact, these three rifles shoot very much the same size groups. BTW, the CZ Varmint has a slightly tapered bull barrel.

In my opinion, the biggest detriment to accuracy in most quality .22 bolt actions is a poor trigger and a low quality scope...not the barrel thickness or configuration.

If you want to buy a second .22, but with semi-auto action, check out the Marlin 60. These are the most accurate out of the box semi-autos available. I had two 60s that could almost keep pace with my bolties in the accuracy department.

 

[Dakk]

In my opinion, the biggest detriment to accuracy in most quality .22 bolt actions is a poor trigger and a low quality scope...not the barrel thickness or configuration.

Good point about the trigger. The MkII with accutrigger is very nice. It can be lightened to something like 2.5 lbs. Loving mine.

 

[volks_r_us]

I know you probably made your choice but here is another option. The semi auto option

At 50m with 8X scope.

Might not be the same price as a bolt action but I had the same question as you did when I decided to go the semi's route. It's an old used 10/22 with Dlask 12" barrel with bentz chamber and other little internal goodies. I love this little gun. Reliable, lite enough and deadly accurate

 

[dagtaph]

Ok, now i am really tormented by choices I went and tried different 22s.
My original desire was to find a semi auto with decent accuracy.

Ruger has really nice iron sight, they were the best of the bunch, but its accuracy is not that great.
I really liked the takedown version though. Right now i am thinking about Remington 597.
The older generation of this rifle had some problems, now the problem seemed to be mostly gone.
The barrel is medium profile (not too thin like Ruger's and not too think)
and the accuracy is very good, well above Ruger's, and it is a lot cheaper, i was shocked that ruger is 300 dollar territory. Remington also has the last round bolt open which I like very much. Marlins were very nice ergonomically – they have very thin stocks, it is a pleasure to hold them, but I am not too crazy about either tube feed magazines or sticking out box magazines, I like that Ruger and Remington have box magazines which are almost flash with the receiver.

I like ruger very much and would buy it, but the the lacks of accuracy without an aftermarket barrel is stopping me from buying it. So far I am leaning towards Remington 597.

here is a guy demostrating the accuracy of the remington 597

 

[Grizzlypeg]

No need for a heavy barrel on a 22LR unless all your shooting is off a bench. Quality beats heavy barrel. My lightweight barrel CZ452 American has decent accuracy without useless added dead weight.

 

[dagtaph]

I know you probably made your choice but here is another option. The semi auto option



Might not be the same price as a bolt action but I had the same question as you did when I decided to go the semi's route. It's an old used 10/22 with Dlask 12" barrel with bentz chamber and other little internal goodies. I love this little gun. Reliable, lite enough and deadly accurate

this is probably a very handy rifle. How does it balance when you shoot it off hand? Do you think you loose a lot of velocity with such a short barrel? Your 50yrds target is very impressive, i imagine this result is probably your best of the best results, how is average accuracy at 50yards with this rifle? thanks.

 

[dagtaph]

No need for a heavy barrel on a 22LR unless all your shooting is off a bench. Quality beats heavy barrel. My lightweight barrel CZ452 American has decent accuracy without useless added dead weight.

yes, this seems to be the consensus, at the beginning i wanted a bull barrel but listening to you guys and since this rifle is not going to be bench rest rifle, i figured i am fine with regular profile barrel.

 

[Dakk]

yes, this seems to be the consensus...

Hardly. I see plenty of shiloette shooters with heavy target barrels. They have to shoot standing, without rest, and they have to keep the barrel moving from one target to the other. I don't see them complaining. They have weight limits in shiloette shooting because some people do favor added weight, which helps with accuracy. More weight means a steadier firing platform, and less effect on accuracy due to recoil. .22s don't have much recoil, but they do have some.

Perhaps if all someone shoots is .22 with light barrels, I could see it being a big deal. But anyone used to swinging around a center fire shouldn't mind the weight of a .22 with bull barrel. Too many wimps here.

 

[Grizzlypeg]

Hardly. I see plenty of shiloette shooters with heavy target barrels. They have to shoot standing, without rest, and they have to keep the barrel moving from one target to the other. I don't see them complaining. They have weight limits in shiloette shooting because some people do favor added weight, which helps with accuracy. More weight means a steadier firing platform, and less effect on accuracy due to recoil. .22s don't have much recoil, but they do have some.

Perhaps if all someone shoots is .22 with light barrels, I could see it being a big deal. But anyone used to swinging around a center fire shouldn't mind the weight of a .22 with bull barrel. Too many wimps here.

I thought silhouette shooters had great amounts of time between shots. You make it sound like rapid fire, moving between targets. They can and do lower the rifle between shots and rest. The weight contributes to accuracy by steadying the shot through added inertia. As for bull barrel 22's being ligher than standard center fires, that's not true. A nearly 1" diameter 22 barrel is as heavy or heavier than the same bull barrel in a larger caliber, and a hell of a lot heavier than a standard hunting rifle barrel.

 

[H4831]

Top accuracy=bolt action. End of that story.
Not saying a good semi auto can't be accurate, they can be pretty good.
Pump guns, lever, semi auto, get what suits you. It's just that if accuracy is top of the line with you, get a good bolt action.
The new Savage appear to be quite accurate, but to some of us, they are as homely as a mud fence.
If pride of ownership means anything to you, which it may very well, more so as time goes on, have that in mind when you get your rifle. With those thoughts, my list of new 22 rifles pretty well starts and ends with a CZ, or one of the other European made more expensive types.
It was mentioned that a longer barrel is easier to shoot, or as it was put, will make you a better shooter, and that is very true. And not only for offhand position, but any position where you are holding the rifle in your hands, unsupported by an artificial rest, that longer, fairly heavy barrel will allow you to shoot better.
There are some mighty fine used 22 rifles out there which fill the bill of all we are talking about. The Brno rifles, the Model 1 made shortly after WW2 and up to the Model 5, were the forerunners of the CZ rifles and are text book examples of European gun makers pride of their workmanship. I have both a Model 1 and Model 5 in my gun rack and I actually do think they are better quality than the new CZ rifles.
Another good used one to look for out there, which is really a sleeper, is the old Winchester Model 69A. The last one was made prior to the big shift in Winchester short cuts to quality, of 1964. They are of sporting rifle classification weight, with a fairly stout, longish barrel. In the great days of endless 22 rifle competition, they were very popular, even in the top class of sporting rifles. Smooth and adjust the trigger, bed the barrels and they will shoot off a bench with the best of the sporting weight 22 rifles.
At a gun show in BC last summer, a Winchester 69A in excellent condition, sat unsold through all day of the gun show, with a price tag of $195! I was even tempted to buy it, but I had two similar ones already in my gun room.
A 22 rifle barrel warms up from shooting, but never gets hot like a centrefire rifle does. If the 22 has a good barrel to start with and is properly bedded, it will hold the same group as the barrel warms, so this can be ignored.

 

[Dakk]

I thought silhouette shooters had great amounts of time between shots. You make it sound like rapid fire, moving between targets. They can and do lower the rifle between shots and rest. The weight contributes to accuracy by steadying the shot through added inertia. As for bull barrel 22's being ligher than standard center fires, that's not true. A nearly 1" diameter 22 barrel is as heavy or heavier than the same bull barrel in a larger caliber, and a hell of a lot heavier than a standard hunting rifle barrel.

Great amounts of time? I guess that's relative. The ones I've watch certainly don't sit down and rest their arms between all of their shots. They typically have to make adjustments between shots as they are firing at staggered distances.

I'm guessing that by saying 'added inertia' you are referring to the heavy barrel's weight adding resistance to the gun's movement; which is pretty much the same thing as saying it reduces the effects of recoil. So, not sure what your point is.

Also, I was comparing weights of the entire firearms. For instance, standing and aiming my bull barreled .22 isn't any more difficult than standing and aiming my SKS. Regular .22s are very light, and while I can appreciate that some people might prefer that light weight, I wouldn't refer to heavy barrels as 'dead weight', which was my argument.

 

[dagtaph]

Thank you to all of you for your input, your advice influenced me a great deal, I had to change a few of my ideas based on your input. Finally i bought a Remington semi-auto 597.
It is not as consistent as my bolt action, but it is a lot better out of a box than many of popular semi-autos out there.
I wanted to have a survival rifle which can consistently hit the head of a squirrel at 50 yards which i can have fun with while waiting for a SHTF event
Here is the range report. The first is 10 rounds at 50 yards with bulk federal copper coated 525 box ammo. The second is the same thing but with target Eley ammo.
My bolt action 22lr was less ammo picky, even with the federal bulk ammo all 10 shots would stay within black circle. With target ammo obviously it did even better. Again thank you to everyone who contributed.

 

[AJSP]

Good choice. I had the basic model 597 with the light barrel and it was a fun gun to shoot. Considering getting the 597 HB now.