Considering purchasing a low priced Antique Pistol

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lone.gunman said:
I don't appreciate all this prejudice.
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It's not prejudice, it's prudence on our behalf. Due to your online activity an observent person could be left to conclude that you could have nefarious intent, and that is something we all would like to avoid around here.

The community of CGN has been trolled by antis (is regularly in fact), duped by journalists for headlines, and even brought up in the news by a former Liberal MP who I refuse to waist bandwidth on saying his name that happened to get turfed :wave:. As a community we're a guarded tight-nit bunch, and even more so in the antique hobby. Your activity on here is borderline to say the least, and I hope to be wrong in my assessment. Some of us have a great deal to lose should someone "rock the boat" and you'll find that any form of doing so, real or perceived, is little tolerated in this forum.

All it takes is one headline and one criminal act for those who don't even know the hobby exists to start gnashing their teeth for further regulation. We've enjoyed this hobby without breaking any laws or hurting anyone while enjoying our past time and see no need to assist those who might harm the hobby for the rest of us. Again I hope to be wrong about my assessment of your CGN activity, but you must see where we're coming from. The CZ858 was hardly known by the media and general population until one idiot in Quebec used it in a shooting at a political event in Quebec, and the same can go for antiques which all of us around here hope never happens. This is easily proven as for the first week it was called by the media an AK-47, they had no clue as to what it truly was.

Now I must say that I fully agree with Mooncoon. I don't usually point out grammatical error or pick on poor English around here, but for a "law student" your sentence structure, spelling, and total construction of a paragraph is well......... questionable for a higher educated individual. This happens to further the case that you aren't what you say you are. I truly mean no offence but again this is where we're coming from and I hope you understand.

Now as for some free advice out of all of this I truly feel that if you do have a PAL you should go and take the RPAL. As I said if you want a cheap modern shooter Norinco is the way to go to get started, and Canadaammo.com has great deals.

As for now my collection would be open to all those who posted in this thread other than you as I know and trust them, and I would buy or sell from/to them with confidence. Again I mean no offence but you're raising too many alarm bells here, and I hope should someone decide to deal with you for an antique that they verify your PAL like they would for a non-restricted and see some ID proving you're over 21. For me even such verification wouldn't be enough as I know how fraudsters work and can get valid PAL's from trusting individuals, your online activity is proof enough for me to not deal with you at the moment. I will not sink this hobby for monetary gain, and hope the rest of us in this forum feel the same.

Go get your RPAL and get into Norinco which is affordable and fun, if you really get into shooting pistols then you should consider antiques. This truly isn't a hobby for those that aren't really into it and willing to research what the "old girls" require, and can be a large waist of cash or even a tragedy on your part should you decide you don't like it or have an accident by shooting full power ammo through an antique.

I wish you well and hope that you're here with good intent. I hope that helps you see where we're coming from, no prejudice is intended or directed by anyone here.
 
This truly isn't a hobby for those that aren't really into it and willing to research what the "old girls" require, and can be a large waist of cash or even a tragedy on your part should you decide you don't like it or have an accident by shooting full power ammo through an antique.

Everyone who handles the Antique pistol gets visions of Billy the Kid or Elliot Ness or Dr Watson ( that would be Colt SAA, Colt 1889/1892 or Webley in that order as the catalyst for the Walter Mitty syndrome). The reality is you spend a lot of time time doing uncool stuff like stoning a new hand to fit or casting bullets then reloading them. Or my favourite; waiting for oddball stuff to arrive in the mail.
Most people have no idea how to diagnose why the cylinder lockup is loose, let alone a clue as to how to build a new hand from scratch and temper it.
Or taking the cylinder stop out of an obscure revolver building it up with a torch and rod, installing it / removing it, taking off a few thou with a die makers file. Install , test, remove and repeat; say...10-12 times.
Then re-temper it.
Fortunately I'm a amateur gunsmithing geek and I actually enjoy that sorta thing.
But buy a cheap antique that uses off the shelf at Canadian Tire ammo?
Actually a Sasksquach riding a Unicorn was through today trying to sell one.:)
 
loki_81 said:
It's not prejudice, it's prudence on our behalf. Due to your online activity an observent person could be left to conclude that you could have nefarious intent, and that is something we all would like to avoid around here.

The community of CGN has been trolled by antis (is regularly in fact), duped by journalists for headlines, and even brought up in the news by a former Liberal MP who I refuse to waist bandwidth on saying his name that happened to get turfed :wave:. As a community we're a guarded tight-nit bunch, and even more so in the antique hobby. Your activity on here is borderline to say the least, and I hope to be wrong in my assessment. Some of us have a great deal to lose should someone "rock the boat" and you'll find that any form of doing so, real or perceived, is little tolerated in this forum.

All it takes is one headline and one criminal act for those who don't even know the hobby exists to start gnashing their teeth for further regulation. We've enjoyed this hobby without breaking any laws or hurting anyone while enjoying our past time and see no need to assist those who might harm the hobby for the rest of us. Again I hope to be wrong about my assessment of your CGN activity, but you must see where we're coming from. The CZ858 was hardly known by the media and general population until one idiot in Quebec used it in a shooting at a political event in Quebec, and the same can go for antiques which all of us around here hope never happens. This is easily proven as for the first week it was called by the media an AK-47, they had no clue as to what it truly was.

Now I must say that I fully agree with Mooncoon. I don't usually point out grammatical error or pick on poor English around here, but for a "law student" your sentence structure, spelling, and total construction of a paragraph is well......... questionable for a higher educated individual. This happens to further the case that you aren't what you say you are. I truly mean no offence but again this is where we're coming from and I hope you understand.

Now as for some free advice out of all of this I truly feel that if you do have a PAL you should go and take the RPAL. As I said if you want a cheap modern shooter Norinco is the way to go to get started, and Canadaammo.com has great deals.

As for now my collection would be open to all those who posted in this thread other than you as I know and trust them, and I would buy or sell from/to them with confidence. Again I mean no offence but you're raising too many alarm bells here, and I hope should someone decide to deal with you for an antique that they verify your PAL like they would for a non-restricted and see some ID proving you're over 21. For me even such verification wouldn't be enough as I know how fraudsters work and can get valid PAL's from trusting individuals, your online activity is proof enough for me to not deal with you at the moment. I will not sink this hobby for monetary gain, and hope the rest of us in this forum feel the same.

Go get your RPAL and get into Norinco which is affordable and fun, if you really get into shooting pistols then you should consider antiques. This truly isn't a hobby for those that aren't really into it and willing to research what the "old girls" require, and can be a large waist of cash or even a tragedy on your part should you decide you don't like it or have an accident by shooting full power ammo through an antique.

I wish you well and hope that you're here with good intent. I hope that helps you see where we're coming from, no prejudice is intended or directed by anyone here.
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Again, thanks for your concern. I have posted in the other forums (Red, Military guns) and they have been far more helpful than this one. The people in this forum (antique guns) must be older, paranoid?

You - prejudiced, ignorant, paranoid - have made my experience in this forum a little unpleasant.

As I said, you don't have to worry about me. I am law student, no criminal record, and just interested in firearms. I ask questions and am direct about the guns I am interested in; I like certain guns; this makes me a criminal? this raises red flags?

Why can you own firearms, but not me? You don't believe my story, about me being a law student... would you like a link to my facebook so you can look at my nice shiny car, law degree, and other possessions, which are just an elaborate part of my lie?

Judge my grammar all you want - this is a forum to exchange ideas, not an English essay or my thesis. I don't know why I am 'waisting', actually WASTING my time replying, but I appreciate your concern but you got it completely wrong. I know my CGN name is silly, but I thought it was kind of funny.

I am finalizing my first purchase on CGN - and I am doing it COD, have my PAL ready, so you will see my positive feedback soon. The first rifle I will be buying is a CZ858, and hopefully this will add some credibility to my story. You have nothing to worry about.

I do not really want the RPAL yet, sure I want handguns, but there are so many more restrictions.

Antique pistols do not have so many legal restrictions, appear to be a good investment, and are really cool looking.

I learned that they're expensive, bullets are a headache, so I probably am not interested in this and you will not see me in this forum.

unless I can find a reliable antique hand gun... that is cheap... because I am a student. (I am getting the CZ858 for a killer deal, and found another CGN user who is doing a face to face transaction for his SR-22 when he comes back from deer-hunting, also sweet deal)


Thanks
 
Don't sweat it.
Yes the Antique folks are a little paraniod. We have a lot of time and money invested in them. And in my opinion the possibility that someone might do something brash or foolish that would result in the right being lost; that's a real possibility.
Relax and watch the EE, something will catch your eye. The french 1873 11mm's are supposedly a tank, I've read great reviews about them. The 1892 8mm french are supposed to be really nice also. Undervalued is the word I think. Belgian stuff can be problematic.
Personally I think the CZ 58's are overrated. A good Russian SKS will keep up with them IMO
Don't let your feathers get too ruffled.
Go on Milsurp and tell them you have a jungle carbine with 'wandering zero' then you'll really get a virtual attack, LOL
Stay safe
 
I seriously don't know why I'm taking the time to do this anymore with you, but here it goes.

lone.gunman said:
Again, thanks for your concern. I have posted in the other forums (Red, Military guns) and they have been far more helpful than this one. The people in this forum (antique guns) must be older, paranoid?

You - prejudiced, ignorant, paranoid - have made my experience in this forum a little unpleasant.
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Actually this forum ranges in age and interests. You can find me in every area of this community for one including the antiques section, and I'm probably of the young demographic for CGN.

Now how exactly is this forum unpleasant? By a person wishing you well, explaining the position of the people who have replied to your thread and trying to reasonably show you why I felt dealing with you could be best used with caution? I'd suggest you grow a thicker skin should you decide to stay a part of this community, most of CGN will light you up and not be as polite as those in this thread, someone who even remotely comes off as an anti on CGN gets ripped on bad around here. The better reply would be "thanks for the advice" and to move on with life but you continue to dig a hole here.

Nowhere have I nor anyone else here displayed prejudice nor is my attempt to explain the general position around here ignorant. Paranoid.... well sure, but trust me when you have a dog in this fight and something to lose it's a natural response in this case, especially against someone who resorts to name calling against someone actually trying to educate them. This hobby is expensive in both time and money, and some around here actually have something to lose.

lone.gunman said:
As I said, you don't have to worry about me. I am law student, no criminal record, and just interested in firearms. I ask questions and am direct about the guns I am interested in; I like certain guns; this makes me a criminal? this raises red flags?
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Says the random guy on the internet. Alright I absolutely believe you :rolleyes:.

You didn't come here to ask questions, you made nearly an EE ad with very few relevant questions other than how to get an antique pistol that must be under $1000. I'm sorry I may have torpedoed your attempt at doing so.

For the record, nobody has called you a criminal.

lone.gunman said:
Why can you own firearms, but not me? You don't believe my story, about me being a law student... would you like a link to my facebook so you can look at my nice shiny car, law degree, and other possessions, which are just an elaborate part of my lie?
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Nobody has said that you can't own firearms. I did say that "if you do have a PAL" which at most insinuates that I don't believe that you have a valid PAL.

As for the rest, I don't care. Besides would you like a link to some random persons facebook account that allows you to believe I'm a surgeon? This in and of itself is proof of nothing, on the internet you can claim to be whomever you want.

lone.gunman said:
I don't know why I am 'waisting', actually WASTING my time replying
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By giving you a thoughtful, logical, and relevant reply I wasn't wasting my own? Take it for what it is, an attempt at education in the hobby, and grow a thicker skin.

lone.gunman said:
I learned that they're expensive, bullets are a headache, so I probably am not interested in this and you will not see me in this forum.
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Oh no, please stay, you're a valuable and contributing member of the community :yingyang:.

lone.gunman said:
unless I can find a reliable antique hand gun... that is cheap... because I am a student.
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Well then allow me to reiterate this to you; there is no such thing as a antique handgun that shoots modern ammo and is cheap. If you still want one I suggest you get in your Delorean and gun it to 88mph and go back to when these were $18, otherwise you can now add a few extra zeros to that price these days.

Again I wish you well, mean no prejudice, and hope that you truly can get into the hobby one day should you actually have good intent. Again be careful, be discreet, and be responsible and you'll enjoy the hobby. This will be my last reply to you, have a good one with your new CZ858.
 
tokguy said:
Don't sweat it.
Yes the Antique folks are a little paraniod. We have a lot of time and money invested in them. And in my opinion the possibility that someone might do something brash or foolish that would result in the right being lost; that's a real possibility.
Relax and watch the EE, something will catch your eye. The french 1873 11mm's are supposedly a tank, I've read great reviews about them. The 1892 8mm french are supposed to be really nice also. Undervalued is the word I think. Belgian stuff can be problematic.
Personally I think the CZ 58's are overrated. A good Russian SKS will keep up with them IMO
Don't let your feathers get too ruffled.
Go on Milsurp and tell them you have a jungle carbine with 'wandering zero' then you'll really get a virtual attack, LOL
Stay safe
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Thank you. I wish I understood the wandering zero thing.

Dingus was kind enough to tell me a little bit about the French 1873 - I am very interested but 1400$ is a little too much for me right now! but it shoots .45acp..

If it was like 700$, I would totally look at getting one.. looks like such a fine piece!

Thank you will look into the 1892 8mm... I don't know too much about this, will ammo be a HUGE problem with these guns?

my only concern with the antique pieces is safety... If I fire a round, what is the chance sometime bad will happen... or am I being paranoid now?

was going to get a SKS but was told CZ858 has more accuracy.. that's why I also chose the SR-22 over the ruger 10/22... accuracy. I eventually want to get back into target shooting. Eventually. I also want an ar-180b... such a cool looking gun.. only non-restricted AR... but it is rare and I think I can only get it from the US, so this involves paying 250$ in fees...

but it would be really cool to have an antique pistol. That's why I am doing some research.

edit: the 1892 looks really cool! it has a nice history to it, used in the indochina war, something that I did a bit of research on myself.... HOW MUCH!?
 
I've seen the 1892 french revolvers go for around 1000 but not for a bit.
The European ones are quite often simpler and sturdier than the American models. But European pistols were often a ceremonial mark of rank whereas the North American pistols were designed to be manstoppers.
There was several Reichrevolvers on the EE. They are a potent round in a simple sturdy gun, quite often affordable.
 
Shooting full power 45 acp in french 1873 will result in it blow up in your hand.

Importing AR-180B from the US involves you paying almost $500 in fees to US exporter, not $250, and you'll never see your rifle because it's chambered in 5.56 NATO and have a flash hider on the nozzle.

Better just get your RPAL
 
1fastjeep said:
Shooting full power 45 acp in french 1873 will result in it blow up in your hand.

Importing AR-180B from the US involves you paying almost $500 in fees to US exporter, not $250, and you'll never see your rifle because it's chambered in 5.56 NATO and have a flash hider on the nozzle.

Better just get your RPAL
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:agree: To all of this post.
 
A general rule is that the cheaper the antique pistol is within its own price range, the more work you will have to do on it. Before buying a cheaper antique pistol, I'd recommend Gunsmithing Guns of the Old West by David Chicoine. You will need to know things about headspace, end shake, lock up, timing, effects of chamber pitting on strength, and other stuff. For most antiques you will either have to figure out how to make your own cartridges because they aren't sold anymore. You'll need to understand the relative strengths of different guns or you may end up turning your new antique into shrapnel. Then there is the question of how to enjoy them with discretion. If I were you, Lone Gunman, I'd spend at least a year reading about the different kinds, becoming familiar with them, and the different types of obsolete ammo they used, prices and the difference between honest, original ones and ones that have been reblued, etc.
 
lone.gunman said:
Why can you own firearms, but not me? You don't believe my story, about me being a law student... would you like a link to my facebook
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the question is not should you be allowed to own firearms but rather do we believe you or do we believe you might be a troll or baiting us in some form. If you are practicing criminal law after you get your degree, the public perception (as in jury members) of your statements will play a very large role in the success of your defense or prosecution arguments. The replies on this forum are just an early example of public perception. I for one believe almost none of what I read on facebook and feel it is hardly a good credential to use

I do not really want the RPAL yet, sure I want handguns, but there are so many more restrictions.

Antique pistols do not have so many legal restrictions, appear to be a good investment, and are really cool looking.

I learned that they're expensive, bullets are a headache, so I probably am not interested in this and you will not see me in this forum.
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Antique handguns may not have so many restrictions but in many ways they must be treated as modern guns. It may be legal to shoot one in a gravel pit but unless done with discretion and good judgement it will also lead to inconvenience to you and potentially lead to demands by the public for further regulation and restriction for all of us.

For the most part cheap antique handguns are just that; cheap junky handguns and require considerable work to make them work well if they can be made to work well at all. Ammunition is less of a concern but it does require handloading and further usually requires knowing what and how you can form the antique shell from something that is current as well as modifying molds to cast an appropriate slug

cheers mooncoon
 
intresting thread. a point that might be worth makeing is do sellers bother to check out guys who buy antiques to some degree.
my answer is yes i can tell by the comunications what a person is after and up to, to some degree, but remember its easy enough to ask for a PAL if i have concerns but its a gamble selling on the internet eh unless you know the person.
hell its a gamble at gun shows to tho face to face is better.
I have sold to alot of frist time buyers on CGN who had other firearms and all seemed fine to me most are quick to offer me there PAL # , do we know 100% if there a nutter no we dont, nor do we really know with modern guns either, people shoot each other with modern guns. licenced gun people do this from time to time.

As far as frist time buyers go let me just say theres some members on CGN with 100s of posts and dozens of feedback that id rather not see useing and haveing antique hand guns LOL.
its not always young guys that are green on the antique thing eh.
We sold a 32 Rf handgun to two old guys and a box of ammo at a gun show they had a PAL for the ammo they were acting like a couple kids and were heading out the door i just could tell they were headed for the frist side road to shoot it so i stoped them and gave them a good lecture about the dos and donts of antique handgun ownership.
I think it helped and it helps here to.
We all have to be carefull who we sell handguns to i just thought that was common sence.
Theres alot of sellers that just sell on CGN and never post anything helpfull , i feel its important to show people on theses threads as well if were gona be selling one goes with the other even if its the odd gun sold it only takes one in the wrong hands.
Theres nothing wrong with asking a buyer for a firearms licence when selling a antique gun of any kind if your not sure, and really how can you be guys, Ted Bundy had one of the higest IQs out there.
I understand guys worrying about this tho, and from the posts i read in this thread i see more concern than anything bad from the other members here replying to the OP.

On another note The "Transport and storage use Regs" should be stickyed by the way with a lock so a hunderd guys can reply to it makeing it hard to find i have to find and give that info out 10 times a month as CGNers cant find it.
 
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Some well reasoned responses there.

For a lot of us it isn't about acquiring one "too shoot" either. It's first and foremost about the history of the piece, of the company, or even of the region of manufacture as it relates to the time period during which it was manufactured. Norwich Connecticut ca ~1860- ~1880, for example. That we can actually own one of these examples without deactivation (which destroys collector value and historical accuracy) is phenomenal as many examples are otherwise 12(6); and if they can be shot safely then that is an added bonus simply because it gives more understanding to the piece, if that makes sense.

What that means then is that when we see a post titled such as this one, it rings alarm bells on many different levels. Safety as well as many have pointed out. Reloading blackpowder cartridges for a modern gun is not to be taken lightly; and as soon as you get into substitution for original antiques you are treading in a very technical and dangerous area that requires a high degree of understanding for reloading and the components thereof.

Happy shootin' any way
 
If person says they don't need or want input or advice, they can send money to a US dealer, hope it passes Customs, and what ever shows up in the mail is yours. Sometimes it's better to take the help offered, it may avoid problems later.
 
This has turned into a great educational thread, despite the original post!

If the OP sticks around, he'll quickly learn that the folks in the Antique subsection are by far the most easy going, friendly guys on CGN!! Try spending some time in the Political threads, eh?

As for "cheap", I've looked at lots of prices, here, and on US sites, and now see $1,500 as cheap, and $4,000 as perfectly reasonable...
 
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