Is the private sale of ammo legal?

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TheGlockter

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Hey dudes,
I switched to 124gr ammunition for my G17 and am selling a bunch of 147gr 9mm ammo that I don't need any more. I realized (after posting on the equipment exchange) I don't even know what the regulations are regarding selling (and shipping) ammunition privately. When I've bought ammo on line from dealers I've had to provide my PAL info. Do I need to see PAL info from the person I'm selling to?
 
shawn said:
You answered your own question. You can only sell to people with PALs

Shawn
Click to expand...

Ok, but how do I prove I sold to someone with a PAL. Do I need a photocopy of the licence or something?
Also... how does that work if I want to sell to someone who lives somewhere else in Canada and I need to ship. Is an emailed scan of the PAL licence good enough?
 
TheGlockter said:
Ok, but how do I prove I sold to someone with a PAL. Do I need a photocopy of the licence or something?
Also... how does that work if I want to sell to someone who lives somewhere else in Canada and I need to ship. Is an emailed scan of the PAL licence good enough?
Click to expand...

You don't need to prove it, you just have to know they have a PAL.

How you do that is up to you, face to face see it, internet see scan, or get their info and verify it with the cfc

Shawn
 
TheGlockter said:
Ok, but how do I prove I sold to someone with a PAL. Do I need a photocopy of the licence or something?
Also... how does that work if I want to sell to someone who lives somewhere else in Canada and I need to ship. Is an emailed scan of the PAL licence good enough?
Click to expand...

No, you don't need a photocopy. You don't need to call the CFC. It's just some ammo. Don't overly complicate stuff. Just sell it to someone you have no reason to believe DOESN"T have a PAL.
 
Only when purshasing from a store was i ever asked for a PAL...they have to account for where and when the ammo is sold due to explosives act. Once it is sold, it is the property of the buyer . CFC will never know if you shot it or not. Nor do they have records of you buying it. Only the store is liable for assuring the buyer has a PAL.
 
Gatehouse said:
No, you don't need a photocopy. You don't need to call the CFC. It's just some ammo. Don't overly complicate stuff. Just sell it to someone you have no reason to believe DOESN"T have a PAL.
Click to expand...

Sorry, thats not true, you really need to stop trying to convince people that they have no responsibility in transferring firearms or ammo. See below.

Winnipeg Toymaker said:
Only when purshasing from a store was i ever asked for a PAL...they have to account for where and when the ammo is sold due to explosives act. Once it is sold, it is the property of the buyer . CFC will never know if you shot it or not. Nor do they have records of you buying it. Only the store is liable for assuring the buyer has a PAL.
Click to expand...

Again not true, you are liable just like the stores are. You guys really need to read the law before passing on your wisdom.

Authorization to transfer ammunition to individuals
25.*A person may transfer ammunition that is not prohibited ammunition to an individual only if the individual
(a)*until January 1, 2001, holds a licence authorizing him or her to possess firearms or a prescribed document; or
(b)*after January 1, 2001, holds a licence authorizing him or her to possess firearms.
Click to expand...

http://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/acts/F-11.6/page-8.html?term=ammunition#s-25.

You need to see the PAL or verify they have one or you are breaking the law. And in-case you are wondering here are the punishments:

Transfer without authority
101.*(1)*Every person commits an offence who transfers a firearm, a prohibited weapon, a restricted weapon, a prohibited device, any ammunition or any prohibited ammunition to any person otherwise than under the authority of the Firearms Act or any other Act of Parliament or any regulations made under an Act of Parliament.
(2)*Every person who commits an offence under subsection (1)
(a)*is guilty of an indictable offence and liable to imprisonment for a term not exceeding five years; or
(b)*is guilty of an offence punishable on summary conviction.
Click to expand...

http://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/acts/C-46/page-47.html?term=ammunition#s-100.

Weapons trafficking
99.*(1)*Every person commits an offence who
(a)*manufactures or transfers, whether or not for consideration, or
(b)*offers to do anything referred to in paragraph (a) in respect of
a firearm, a prohibited weapon, a restricted weapon, a prohibited device, any ammunition or any prohibited ammunition knowing that the person is not authorized to do so under the Firearms Act or any other Act of Parliament or any regulations made under any Act of Parliament.
(2)*Every person who commits an offence under subsection (1) where the object in question is a firearm, a prohibited device, any ammunition or any prohibited ammunition is guilty of an indictable offence and liable to imprisonment for a term not exceeding 10 years and to a minimum punishment of imprisonment for a term of
(a)*in the case of a first offence, three years; and
(b)*in the case of a second or subsequent offence, five years.
Click to expand...

http://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/acts/C-46/page-46.html?term=ammunition#s-99.

Possession for purpose of weapons trafficking
100.*(1)*Every person commits an offence who possesses a firearm, a prohibited weapon, a restricted weapon, a prohibited device, any ammunition or any prohibited ammunition for the purpose of
(a)*transferring it, whether or not for consideration, or
(b)*offering to transfer it,
knowing that the person is not authorized to transfer it under the Firearms Act or any other Act of Parliament or any regulations made under any Act of Parliament.
(2)*Every person who commits an offence under subsection (1) where the object in question is a firearm, a prohibited device, any ammunition or any prohibited ammunition is guilty of an indictable offence and liable to imprisonment for a term not exceeding 10 years and to a minimum punishment of imprisonment for a term of
(a)*in the case of a first offence, three years; and
(b)*in the case of a second or subsequent offence, five years.
Click to expand...

http://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/acts/C-46/page-47.html?term=ammunition#s-100.

Is the risk really worth the 10 seconds it takes to see the guys PAL? I guess that is up to you.

Bottom line is legally you can only sell ammunition to people with a PAL and the BS about reason to believe and only stores are liable, is just that BS.

Shawn
 
Shawn, you nailed it for transactions within Canada.

Here's an interesting thing about importing ammunition, as long as a person doesn't get caught by the U.S. authorities for being in possession of ammo you can import into Canada without a PAL. The amount allowed without a permit is 5000 rounds. Yep, no need for a PAL, a lot of Border Officers will ask for one but there is no requirement by law to have one on importation for a private citizen.
 
Not to get into a I say you say but I am very confident of the importation of ammuntion not requiring a PAL......

Firearms Act does require businesses to check PALs and the requirement that you, I or someone else must be satisfied on presentation of a PAL when transfering/selling ammo within Canada. The onus is on the seller/lender not the recipient.

Criminal Code only makes it an offence for possession when it's a threat to public peace or for the purpose of commiting an offence:

"88. (1) Every person commits an offence who carries or possesses a weapon, an imitation of a weapon, a prohibited device or any ammunition or prohibited ammunition for a purpose dangerous to the public peace or for the purpose of committing an offence'".

A while back I did have a discussion with the CFC regarding this and they sheepishly admitted that there is no requirement for a PAL for personal importation. The D-memorandums that CBSA publish has no reference for the requirement of a PAL on import.

Hope this clarifies my previous post.
 
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shawn said:
Sorry, thats not true, you really need to stop trying to convince people that they have no responsibility in transferring firearms or ammo. See below.



Again not true, you are liable just like the stores are. You guys really need to read the law before passing on your wisdom.



http://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/acts/F-11.6/page-8.html?term=ammunition#s-25.

You need to see the PAL or verify they have one or you are breaking the law. And in-case you are wondering here are the punishments:



http://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/acts/C-46/page-47.html?term=ammunition#s-100.



http://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/acts/C-46/page-46.html?term=ammunition#s-99.



http://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/acts/C-46/page-47.html?term=ammunition#s-100.

Is the risk really worth the 10 seconds it takes to see the guys PAL? I guess that is up to you.

Bottom line is legally you can only sell ammunition to people with a PAL and the BS about reason to believe and only stores are liable, is just that BS.

Shawn
Click to expand...


Nowhere does it say you need to photocopy or scan a PAL. Nowhere does it say you need to call the CFC.

You don't even need to SEE the PAL if you know someone has one. It's not an offense to NOT see someone's PAL when selling them ammo.

You aren't even required to see a PAL when selling a non restricted firearm.

Don't overly complicate stuff. There isn't any need.
 
elwoodpdowd said:
Not to get into a I say you say but I am very confident of the importation of ammuntion not requiring a PAL......

Firearms Act does require businesses to check PALs and the requirement that you, I or someone else must be satisfied on presentation of a PAL when transfering/selling ammo within Canada. The onus is on the seller/lender not the recipient.

Criminal Code only makes it an offence for possession when it's a threat to public peace or for the purpose of commiting an offence:

"88. (1) Every person commits an offence who carries or possesses a weapon, an imitation of a weapon, a prohibited device or any ammunition or prohibited ammunition for a purpose dangerous to the public peace or for the purpose of committing an offence'".

A while back I did have a discussion with the CFC regarding this and they sheepishly admitted that there is no requirement for a PAL for personal importation. The D-memorandums that CBSA publish has no reference for the requirement of a PAL on import.

Hope this clarifies my previous post.
Click to expand...

shawn said:
There is nothing in Canadian law saying you need a PAL to possess ammo, just to purchase it.

Shawn
Click to expand...

Well you guys are correct about that, but I guarantee that if you declare ammo at the border and can't/wont produce a PAL to the CBSA agent if they ask for it, your ammo won't be going any father than the border.
 
elwoodpdowd said:
Shawn, you nailed it for transactions within Canada.

Here's an interesting thing about importing ammunition, as long as a person doesn't get caught by the U.S. authorities for being in possession of ammo you can import into Canada without a PAL. The amount allowed without a permit is 5000 rounds. Yep, no need for a PAL, a lot of Border Officers will ask for one but there is no requirement by law to have one on importation for a private citizen.
Click to expand...

Surely you are not suggesting that a Canadian illegally acquire and export ammuntion from the United States?
Such suggestions can result in being banned from this site.
 
Never would I suggest that anyone break a law just saying that a pal is not required (only to prove how the Fire Arms Act and other laws are convoluted).

Again,,,, this was not the intent to consul or encourage unlawful acts
 
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Gatehouse said:
Nowhere does it say you need to photocopy or scan a PAL. Nowhere does it say you need to call the CFC.
Click to expand...

Never said you did.

Gatehouse said:
It's not an offense to NOT see someone's PAL when selling them ammo.
Click to expand...

It is if they turn out to not have a PAL

Gatehouse said:
u aren't even required to see a PAL when selling a non restricted firearm.
Click to expand...

Actually you do.

For those of you who want to know what is actually the law and not what Gatehouse wishes the law was read this thread. Where 2 lawyers and a bunch of other people blow that BS out of the water.

http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/foru...19-for-PAL-Verification&p=7853753#post7853753

Gatehouse said:
Don't overly complicate stuff. There isn't any need.
Click to expand...

Stop telling people what the law is if you don't know it your self.

Shawn
 
You aren't required to see a PAL to sell ammo or a non restricted. If you sell ammo to someone with a PAL without seeing it, you are not breaking any laws.

Stop lying, Shawn.
 
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