In the future, I'm going to put a new barrel on my little Sako L461. I will probably switch to .223 from .222 just because surplus brass is so cheap to get/reload. Anyway, I'm curious if I need to order a custom barrel to get the right shank diameter, or would a barrel that's meant to go on a savage with a barrel nut (I think that's 1.060"?) be useable for this rifle? Also, had a hard time finding out for sure what the thread for the barrel shank is, maybe 22mm x 1.6 pitch? Any gunsmiths here ever re-barrel one of these before?
Sako L461 Barrel Replacement?
- Thread starter SouthPaw700
- Start date
gunrunner8
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Kamloops, B.C.
Yes, small shank Savage barrel will fit nicely b/c 1,062" dia and removed 20TPI threads will give you ample "meat" to cut new 25mm dia x 1,6mm pitch metric thread, preety close to 1"x16TPI but not quite the same. Of course to create solid shoulder it would be adviceable to red loctite the Savage nut first in proper place and machine it down a little to get rid of those ugly grooves. (those measurements were taken from my removed and bulged old Sako L579 Forester 243Win barrel) Yours mini L461 action might have even smaller dia tennon (22mm?) so other brands take out barrels could be used. Your minimum expense to replace the barrel with a take out one would be $75-$125 for barrel + $125-$175 for instalation + shipping expenses.
gunrunner8
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Kamloops, B.C.
I am trained machinist in Europe and hate to cut the corners Chinese style. Yes, you right guntech it's way more than pretty close but....You see my Sako Forester tomato stake barrel has 10 threads so once 16TPI barrel is fited into original Sako receiver the first couple of threads will take up all the torque and the rest of them will be having free raid b/c the middle one will be .0025" away from engagement and the last one as much as .005" away. I have lathe with imperial threads and metric threads cutting ability and I am sure you have one to. To change over is a matter of changing two gears or 3-4min so why not to do it right in the first place?
Blastattack
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Winnipeg MB
Though I agree with the above, are we all sure that the thread pitch is actually 1.6mm? Being a Machinist myself, 1.6mm seems incredibly unlikely as 1.6mm is not a standard metric pitch, and would be an unlikely find on any turning machine, metric or imperial. According to Joe p.o.n.t.o*, the Technical specifications for the L461 and A1 state the barrel thread is W22x1/16", and employs 55 degree threads. This means that the rifle has a 22mm shank, uses 16tpi threads, and is the 55 degree British Standard Whitworth thread form. This practice seems to be quite common in European firearms manufacturing. Georg Luger designed the Luger for 18mm-20tpi BSW, and Mauser used 1.100"-12tpi BSW for their action. As far as I know, BSW was the only widespread standard at the time, and thus tooling for it was readily available. The 55 degree BSW is also stronger than 60 degree V threads, and was preferred because of that.
That's my .02. What do y'all think?
*Edit: Why in the living hell does the word p.o.n.t.o appear as ***** when the dots are removed? Am I missing something?
I am a trained gunsmith in the USA and hate to cut corners, any style. No offense to any country.
I don't know how many thousands of barrels have been refitted to Sakos using 16 TPI but I know it has not been a problem in any area - strength, accuracy, safety. It only takes 3 threads to hold a barrel on under the highest pressures...
If I had metric gearing I would thread metric but it certainly isn't required in this case.
My metric thread gauge does not have 1.6mm on it either...
gunrunner8
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Kamloops, B.C.
I have no idea about Luger threading but 18mmX20TPI would be Frankenstain kind of thread to European gunsmiths and doesn't make any sense to me either, most NA gunsmiths are fitting franken pitch threads to make it fit, sure make the thread loose enough and sooner or latter everything will "fit". I am quite sure the proper designation is 18mmx1,25mm pitch. The same is with the large ring Mauser; 1,1"x12TPI is quite close but not exactly right at 28mmx2mm pitch. If it comes to Sako again 1,6 mm pitch is not used very often but I have that one on my 16x36 lathe; 32 imperial ones from 4TPI to 56TPI and 22 different metric ones from 0.4mm to 7mm pitch and including 1,6mm one as well. GR8.
Blastattack
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Winnipeg MB
I am 100% sure you are wrong. The Luger blueprints (of which I have a copy) state the threads are 18mm diameter and 1.27mm pitch, which is exactly equal to 0.050", or 1/20. It is alos known that the Mauser is 12 tpi BSW, and is not a metric thread. As I said, this was done because tooling was readily available. "close enough" is a piss poor excuse for an machinist. Buy the $20 insert and do it right the first time and evey time after.
gunrunner8
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Kamloops, B.C.
I will quote Frank de Haas from his 3rd edition book "Bolt Action Rifles" page 108 "M98 Barrel Thread"
"What they all have in common is a Whitworth-type thread with a metric pitch. This is a 55-degree V-thread, usually with rounded bottom and crest. The metric pitch is very close to twelve threads per inch. The American standard V-thread has a 60-degree angle and it has long been a customary practice of American gunsmiths to use the 60 degree thread in fitting new barrels to Mauser actions, a practice that's perfectly acceptable.
Barrelmakers producing threaded and chambered M98 replacement barrels must of necessity cut a minimum thread so that the barrels will fit in practically every M98 action- this is also all right since a slightly loose thread fit is permissible."
