Is the private sale of ammo legal?

[Gatehouse]

Everything gatehouse said in your quote is ligit.

Absolutely legit.

You don't need to photocopy, make scans of PAL's or squirrel away the buyers information for your personal files.

You don't need to call the CFC, check birth dates, call in the ammo transfer or check his place of birth.

It's just ammo. It doesn't need to be a complicated process, despite some people wanting to complicate it.

Nobody should sell ammo to anyone they have reason to believe does not have a PAL.

This is simple stuff here. Not everyone wants it simple, I guess.

 

[ph33r]

Everything gatehouse said in your quote is ligit.

Please, do enlighten me on why the only requirement on a sale is to have no reason to believe the person doesn't have a PAL.

 

[Gatehouse]

Please, do enlighten me on why the only requirement on a sale is to have no reason to believe the person doesn't have a PAL.

It's not the only requirement, but it certainly is one requirement. If you believe a person doesn't have a PAL, you shouldn't sell. Regardless if he sends you a scan of a PAL or shows you one that may or may not be legitimate.

 

[ph33r]

Absolutely legit.

You don't need to photocopy, make scans of PAL's or squirrel away the buyers information for your personal files.

You don't need to call the CFC, check birth dates, call in the ammo transfer or check his place of birth.

I said it was mandatory? Please quote me.

It's just ammo. It doesn't need to be a complicated process, despite some people wanting to complicate it.

Nobody should sell ammo to anyone they have reason to believe does not have a PAL.

This is simple stuff here. Not everyone wants it simple, I guess.

Indeed. It's not complicated. The only requirement I said it was happened to be that you need to be satisfied the person you're selling to has a PAL.

It's not, has never been either, only or cumulatively to have no reason to believe the person doesn't have a PAL.

The particular circumstances of a transaction will determine what steps you should take as a reasonable person to satisfy yourself that the person has a PAL.

I've said this three times now. This is basic legal interpretation.

It's not the only requirement, but it certainly is one requirement. If you believe a person doesn't have a PAL, you shouldn't sell. Regardless if he sends you a scan of a PAL or shows you one that may or may not be legitimate.

Wrong. That criteria is provided in section 23 for the transfer of non-restricted firearms. It is not found in section 25 that deals with the transfer of ammunition.

Pro tip: Firearms Act

 

[legi0n]

Please, do enlighten me on why the only requirement on a sale is to have no reason to believe the person doesn't have a PAL.

I tend to side with Gatehouse here.
Here's my reasoning: the law requires the transferee to hold some form of licence.

But because a civilian has limited means to verify the validity of said licence, the transferor has to be reasonably satisfied the transferee holds it.
After all PALs and RPALs and their photocopies can be forged.
As for showing the PAL/RPAL on a webcam, the resolution is so low that even a bad forgery will pass.
Therefore once you're reasonably satisfied that the buyer has a licence, the transfer can take place.

edit: Q for the legal beagles: does the law say the firearms licence must be valid?

 

[Gatehouse]

]

I said it was mandatory? Please quote me

I said that you said it was mandatory? Please quote me.

Indeed. It's not complicated. The only requirement I said it was happened to be that you need to be satisfied the person you're selling to has a PAL.

I said the same thing.

It's not, has never been either, only or cumulatively to have no reason to believe the person doesn't have a PAL.

It's common sense to not sell ammo to someone you don't believe has a PAL.

The particular circumstances of a transaction will determine what steps you should take as a reasonable person to satisfy yourself that the person has a PAL.

I've said this three times now. This is basic legal interpretation.

I said it right from the start. This is basic common sense.

Wrong. That criteria is provided in section 23 for the transfer of non-restricted firearms. It is not found in section 25 that deals with the transfer of ammunition.

Pro tip: Firearms Act

You are saying that I am wrong to refrain from selling ammo to someone that I believe does not have a valid PAL. Oookkkkay....

Again, it's common sense to not sell ammo to someone you believe does not have a PAL.

Pro Tip: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_sense

 

[shawn]

Wow now you are arguing that a lawyer is wrong and your right lol.

Legion, to hold a license it must be valid otherwise you no long hold it. The reasonable person test would be they mean have a valid license.

Shawn

 

[Gatehouse]

Wow now you are arguing that a lawyer is wrong and your right lol.

Shawn

50% of lawyers are wrong in court.



I'm just arguing for common sense.

It's common sense to not sell ammo to someone you don't believe has a PAL. People have been known to be dishonest with their credentials before.

Not everyone needs to consult the CFC to make a common sense decision. Although I know that's a scary thought for some gun owners- thinking for themselves and all.

 

[shawn]

50% of lawyers are wrong in court.



I'm just arguing for common sense.

It's common sense to not sell ammo to someone you don't believe has a PAL. People have been known to be dishonest with their credentials before.

Not everyone needs to consult the CFC to make a common sense decision. Although I know that's a scary thought for some gun owners- thinking for themselves and all.

But your not.

The question was: I am selling in the EE, Do I need to see PAL info from the person I'm selling to?
Your answer was: Just sell it to someone you have no reason to believe DOESN"T have a PAL

You were wrong and cant except it. No one is talking about selling to people they know or their dad or what ever BS you have tried to cloud the issue with. The OP asked a question and you gave him BS info and got called on it and now cant let it go.

And when exactly has anything in the Canadian legal system been based on common sense? Just because you think its common sense doesn't make it legal.

Shawn

 

[Gatehouse]

[

But your not.

The question was: I am selling in the EE, Do I need to see PAL info from the person I'm selling to?
Your answer was: Just sell it to someone you have no reason to believe DOESN"T have a PAL

You were wrong and cant except it. No one is talking about selling to people they know or their dad or what ever BS you have tried to cloud the issue with. The OP asked a question and you gave him BS info and got called on it and now cant let it go.

Shawn, you are lying again.

You are trying to put words into my mouth and snip small bits of a conversation to suit your purposes. The OP specifically asked if he needed to take photocopies, needed to call the CFC etc. I told him he could ask for a PAL if he sold it in person, he didn't need photocopies or over-complication, and to sell the ammo to someone that he believes has a PAL. All good advice. Even your lawyer friend said there are many ways to satisfy yourself that the person you are selling ammo to is legitimate, and that It's not a crime to do such a sale to a PAL owner without seeing it

You seem to be one of those gun owners that can't possibly think for themselves, so keep on toeing the line....Some of us are capable of wiping our own asses.

 

[shawn]

bla bla bla

LOL LOL LOL

I can quote you telling the guy that all he has to do is believe that the guy has a PAL to sell to someone. And yet I am the one lying LOL LOL Here I will even do it for you:

Do I need to see PAL info from the person I'm selling to?

No, you don't need a photocopy. You don't need to call the CFC. It's just some ammo. Don't overly complicate stuff. Just sell it to someone you have no reason to believe DOESN"T have a PAL.

Your wrong get over it.

Shawn

 

[Gatehouse]

Why not quote my first post on the thread, Shawn? The one that says that he can ask for a PAL? Hmmm? Because it doesn't support your arguement.

I gave a good answer but you had to jump in and try to prove how smart you are. Which you failed at with your attemps to convince us that a PAL must be visually inspected.

The fact remains that you don't neccesarily need to visually check a pal, nor do you need to call the cfc.

Sorry if this doesn't fit in with your desire to have the nanny state hold your hand through all aspects of your life.

 

[shawn]

Why not quote my first post on the thread, Shawn? The one that says that he can ask for a PAL? Hmmm? Because it doesn't support your arguement.

I gave a good answer but you had to jump in and try to prove how smart you are. Which you failed at with your attemps to convince us that a PAL must be visually inspected.

The fact remains that you don't neccesarily need to visually check a pal, nor do you need to call the cfc.

Sorry if this doesn't fit in with your desire to have the nanny state hold your hand through all aspects of your life.

I could have linked it and its still wrong. "Could ask for a PAL if you want" is not the legal requirement.

I didn't jump in until you tried telling people they could sell ammo to people they didn't know with out seeing a PAL. The fact remains, as per the OPs question, you in fact do need to see the PAL if selling to people you don't know. Which remember is what we are talking about.

Shawn

 

[Gatehouse]

I could have linked it and its still wrong. "Could ask for a PAL if you want" is not the legal requirement.
I didn't jump in until you tried telling people they could sell ammo to people they didn't know with out seeing a PAL. The fact remains, as per the OPs question, you in fact do need to see the PAL if selling to people you don't know. Which remember is what we are talking about.

Shawn, your lies are getting pretty comical now.

There is no law that says that you must see a PAL to sell ammo to someone you don't know. The law says you must only sell to a PAL owner. You were pretty good at posting the laws, so I'm sure if there was one that talked about "selling ammo to someone you don't know" you would have pasted that onto one of your posts.

Stop lying about the legal requirement to sell ammo. The legal requirement is the same if you know someone or not. And the legal requirement does not include a visual inspection of a PAL.

 

[tiriaq]

The OP asked a legitimate question. The thread has deteriorated into a ridiculous trolling contest. Locked.