Winchester model 70, push feed vs control feed. opinions

I've always had a weak spot for M70s, and have lost track of how many I've owned. The execution wasn't always up to the design, but thats life. I wouldn't even bother with a push-feed M70 now. Some of the advantages of CRF are rather fanciful (Chargeing rhinos while hanging upside down), but its very hard to mess a CRF M70 with the old style trigger in the field bad enough that you can't get it running without tools or parts. A grain of sand behind a Remington extractor will stop it dead in its tracks, leaveing you with a chambered round and a bolt that won't close. Plunger ejectors stick, usually when you least want it to. An oversized handload (Or damaged, or dirty) that won't chamber isn't a big deal with a CRF rifle, just change your mind halfway through and eject the culprit. Pushfeeds will give you a oneway trip to stuckville. Field stripable bolts will get seriously neglected rifles back in service, and maybe avoid the neglect in the first place.

I've had many, and still have CRF rifles such as M70s, Kimbers, CZs, and a Montana and with the exception of a Super-grade bought in the early 90s every last one would allow single loading into the chamber. That one would too, after polishing the extractor nose.


Haveing a CRF that won't close on chambered round is a gun disableing problem waiting to happen. There's no need for it. If you do happen to get into that situation pressing on the extractor about 1/3 from the end will lift the nose enough to jump the rim. Mauser guys know all about that. It may not work in 100% of cases but can save you an embarrassing trip home.
 
Boomer said:
In the field I prefer to use an open faced bolt, if a poor load results in a case head expansion, I can withdraw the CRF bolt and remove the cartridge, but with a Remington style bolt that surrounds the case head in a ring of steel, the cartridge case with an expanded head is more than difficult to remove, and the rifle is out of action.
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I have seen an extremely expanded case in a 700 where the bolt could not be opened in the field, but no damage was done to the rifle or shooter ... if that expansion had occurred in what you refer to as an open faced bolt, I believe the case would have ruptured and damaged the rifle and possibly the shooter. In both instances the rifle would not be immediately usable.
 
I have em both as well and I give the edge to the new FN's due to the trigger and the fit and finish is top notch.I have a early 90's xtr sporter dm. 7mm rem. mag 24 in barrel with a Bausch & Lomb 4000 scope and it that I was thinking of selling.The other is a extreme weather 7mm. rem mag that I recently purchased with the 26inch barrel and its a dandy.Here is my 6 shot group at a 106 meters with the xtr the top 4 group is from another gun

IMG_20121021_123015.jpg
 
FWIW I prefer the CRF Model 70 to the PF model and the Pre-64 to the Classic or FN CRFs.

M70 Heirarchy:

1) Pre-64
2) Classic
3) FN
4) Something Else

Why would you buy or trade for the ugly duckling of the family? The Post-64s can be decent rifles, but that's all they will ever be...decent. Every other M70 is at least a "good" rifle and they go up from there. The Post-64 was some bean-counter's way to try to make the rifle compete with cheap rifles. Bravo, you succeeded in dumbing down an excellent rifle into a decent one. And you were rewarded by...? I have 2 Pre-64 M70s and a Classic. The Classic spent a lot of time on the bench at ATRS and is a very fine slick cycling rifle. One Pre-64 has been seriously 'smithed by various unknown people and runs smoother than the Classic. My other Pre-64 is a stock 300 H&H that cycles like grease on glass..and when you load the mag and run rounds through the action it's even smoother. Compared to that rifle, everything else is rough.
 
I have a 1969 Model 70 push-feed in 30-06.

It just works perfectly. No issues at all. What more could one ask?

And the trigger...OMG...amazing. None of my other guns even come close. There's absolutely no creep at all. You just start applying pressure to it, and bang! There is absolutely nothing to give you any chance to flinch in anticipation of the shot. No movement at all, until after the gun has fired.
 
I have a lot of CRF rifles. 9 I think. They work fine. 1 of those is a Win Pre-64. It works fine too. I killed 2 deer two days ago with a Husqvarna 1640 in .270. It worked just fine. I worked the bolt, the shell went where it was supposed to. I fired the deer dropped right there. 20 minutes later the same thing happened. 2 deer in under 30 minutes. CRF works.

I have quite a few PF rifles. They also work fine. I just killed a deer yesterday with a stainless synthetic XTR Winlite in .270. I've shot ragged 1 hole 3 shot groups with that rifle off the bench several times. It's just super accurate. Would it be better if it had CRF?... meh. It was snowing and sleeting yesterday, so I took out the SS rifle. After walking for a couple hours the one side of the rifle [the side that was facing north as the rifle was slung] was coated in a millimeter of solid ice. But when it was time to shoot, it fired right away. Now, on this deer it didn't go down on 1 shot. I missed. But the bolt cycled flawlessly and I fired again. The deer was hit, but still moving, so I cycled and shot again. Then it dropped.

The PF Winny worked just fine in some farily adverse environmental conditions. The missing was my fault. But I got the deer.

3 tags filled. Now if I could only find an elk that isn't just hanging out on posted land!
 
Nothing really WRONG with the PF M70's. They work fine and are usually pretty accurate.

Their biggest problem is that they aren't a CRF M70, and that's what a M70 is supposed to be. ;)
 
i have an early 90s pf m70. its not made cheap. all steel no folded metal floorplate or washer recoil lug. a bit heavy which i like. just after i bought it they came out with crf which made me think for years i had the wrong gun. but my m70 feeds upside down or whatever, is accurrate and loads nicer than my rem 700. i have not used a m70 crf but i got a cz 550 crf bacause i wanted a 6.5x55 i couldnt see how the more complex system was any better and now i hear the fn guns have triggers like my old m70 not these 3 lever gizmos. i am predjudiced because i have grown fond of this ugly duckling but i wouldnt trade it today for crf
 
I have many of both push feed and CRF, I don't really care one way or the other and as I've said here before "I'm totally bi-feedual" A quality rifle is a quality rifle and one or the other form of feeding does not denote higher quality, there is plenty of junk with either system just as there are very high quality rifles using both systems. I had a lot of grief with a push feed Mod 70 years back with the extractor. Don't recall what year it was but it did have the guide slot, finally gave up on it as I could not keep extractors in it, shot well but couldn't get the cases out without a cleaning rod. It had the little sliding extractor in the front of one of the lugs, worst design I've ever seen and in my opinion it was a piece of junk.
I have hunted all over the world and pretty much all the dangerous game it has and have never been let down, EVER by my Rem 700s........push feeds. I also have Brnos, CZs, Win Supergrades and several Ruger 77s and several other CRF rifles and have no issue with them either. It is all about quality, not action design, IMHO.
 
c-fbmi said:
I have many of both push feed and CRF, I don't really care one way or the other and as I've said here before "I'm totally bi-feedual" A quality rifle is a quality rifle and one or the other form of feeding does not denote higher quality, there is plenty of junk with either system just as there are very high quality rifles using both systems. I had a lot of grief with a push feed Mod 70 years back with the extractor. Don't recall what year it was but it did have the guide slot, finally gave up on it as I could not keep extractors in it, shot well but couldn't get the cases out without a cleaning rod. It had the little sliding extractor in the front of one of the lugs, worst design I've ever seen and in my opinion it was a piece of junk.
I have hunted all over the world and pretty much all the dangerous game it has and have never been let down, EVER by my Rem 700s........push feeds. I also have Brnos, CZs, Win Supergrades and several Ruger 77s and several other CRF rifles and have no issue with them either. It is all about quality, not action design, IMHO.
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This pretty well sums up my take on the Push feed/ CRF issue. Eagleye.
 
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