6mm Flobert Antique?

gunzik

gunzik

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Before everyone gets too excited, I know that's a .22 CB cap. S&B are making them, Epps has some (!) and now, so do I.

I have a few of those sad little .22 short revolvers from the 1860s and it got me thinking: they're not safe for anything more than a .22 CB cap anyway. I can reline the 7 little chambers and cut new chambers for .22 CB only.

The statute says: 22 short, long, or long rifle. CB is left out (and I saw a .22 Flobert "antique" in the EE the other day -- forgot to ask the guy if he had his letter). Of course .22 WRF and .22 Magnum are not in there either.

Has anyone here had any luck converting their .22 Short (S&W Model 1, Whitneyville, Wesson & Harrington) revolver to a CB-only Antique? Or do I get to be first again?

Being first is no fun when there's no FRT number.
 
if its relined all the way through the cylinder(the liner would have to be thin mind you) yes it should beable to be antique classed(most likely from prohibited) and get a letter for it
 
gunzik said:
I have a few of those sad little .22 short revolvers from the 1860s and it got me thinking: they're not safe for anything more than a .22 CB cap anyway. I can reline the 7 little chambers and cut new chambers for .22 CB only..
Click to expand...

Because 22s are healed bullets, I am not sure that you could make a chamber with a shoulder on it to prevent the use of 22 shorts. Perhaps more correctly, while you could put a shoulder in the cylinder, because the bullet is the same diameter as the shell, the front of the chamber in the cylinder would be the same diameter as the back. In a single shot rifle or pistol, the beginning of the rifling would determine chamber length and a short chamber could be cut that would accept a bb cap but not a 22 short. In a revolver however the chambers more or less are the length of the cylinder. The only way that I can see it working would be if you could make up a 2 piece cylinder with the front chambered portion too short to accept a 22 short and a separate back portion with firing pins like some of the percussion conversions. I have a hard time visualizing just how it could be done in real life because of the small dimensions involved

cheers mooncoon
 
gastonglock said:
The answer in no. 6 mm flowbert is considered a .22 short.
You could try .22wrf
Click to expand...

no its not its case length is shorter then tha of the .22 short http://stevespages.com/amerrimcart.html take a look at .22 bb cap and cb cap vs .22 short(not cb shorts or cb long but the cb cap and bb cap witch is the same as the 6mm flobert)

if its chambered shorter then a .22 short hen it can not use it (to do so you would have to push hard to swage the bullet down)
 
I've got a 6mm flobert gun with pre-1898 proof marks. I was told by the techs that it would always need to be registered as a restricted as it was nothing more than a .22.
I don't make the rules... If I can de-register my gun I would be happy as a pig in $hit.
 
Thanks, guys!

I thought I would taper the lined cylinder to block out the .22 short. You're right, of course, the cylinders of these are bored straight through. CB projectiles are small and short and should work well with a taper, while shorts should stick out unless you drive them in with a hammer... it will be fussy work. I was just looking for a suggestion that it wouldn't be both hard to do and pointless.
 
I have seen 22 magnum RF handguns in the EE with antique letters so they do consider them diffrent than the regular 22s but a magnum is a bigger dia cartridge so the chambers are diffrent a 22 short or LR case will buldge out and might even split in a 22 Mag chamber.
That said you better have a strong gun with a long cylinder if your gona shoot the 22 magnum.

I think if the gun was chambered to only take the 22 Cb cases then it would be AOK But like Mooncoon says the bullet is the problem unless you rifle the chamber in front of the bullet so a longer 22 Short would not go in it.
You cant just have a narrower chamber throat as the bullets are heeled.
The neat thing about the 22 magnum is its bullet is not heeled its bullet is the same dia as a 22 LR so the 22 mag bullets will shoot thru a 22 LR bored barrel.
The chamber just needs to be reamed with a 22 Magnum chamber reamer.
again that wont work on most of theses short cylinder guns and there not really strong enough either.

I think a handgun that shot only 22 CB caps would be cool isnt the CB the same as 22 subsonics ?
 
I just checked the 6mm folbert is the same as the 22 CB if you go check on google thats what they claim so you could argue with CFC that the folbert is the same as the 22 CB .
Now if the 22 Short is longer than the 22 CB then you got them because the 22 Shorts shouldnt chamber in the shorter CB sized Chamber.
Easy enough to try. if you had a 6mm folbert see if a 22 short will chamber if it wont then the gun should be deregistered. Unless you had one that was altered to take the more comon 22 shorts.
But 22 CB is not on the No list.
I asumed the 22 CB is shorter than a 22 short if there the same length then CFC is right. if not theres your arguement.
They change stuff all the time you just gota have proof.
I read on the net that the 6mm folbert and 22 CB were the same thing.

Maby someone else on CGN can post the diffrent 22s out there and there diffrence in length ect.
i dont have that info it would be good to see it.
I tryed to copy and paste below but i failed!

The 22 CB is for sure a smaller or shorter cartridge than the 22 short so if you had a gun that only chambered the 22 CB then it should be considered antique going by there own rules.



A .22 CB cap, .22 short, and .22 Long Rifle
 
I bought a box of .22 CB just to see what it was like, loaded up the Ruger Single Six and shot it. The guy shooting next to me started laughing when it went off...pretty lame ammo compared to .22LR. You might want to try some before modifying your gun (if it needs it)... just a thought.
 
chamber it for .22 bb cap not cb cap bb caps are harder to find but there may be way to make your own but with a bb cap there is no question that it will not take a .22 short

.22 bb cap, .222 bullet(round ball in this case), .224 case diam, .270 rim diam, .284 case length,.343 cartridge length
.22 cb cap,.222 bullet (pellet shape in this case), .225 case diam, .271 rim diam, .420 case length, .520 cartridge length(this one may be a problem)
.22 short,.223 bulle diam(30gr heel based bullet),. 225 case diam,.275 rim diam,.423 case length,.686 cartridge length

the bb cap has no powder so barrels and liners can be thin there original purpose of this cartridge was indoor shooting this was made before even the .22 short it dose share same case size roughly but not length
 
Thanks Guys!

Yes, CB is a short little guy, half the length of .22 Short. S&B still makes them, and they are feeble. The ones Epps is selling are the "ME", which look like BB caps. They push a 16 grain pill to 850 fps and wring 24 foot pounds out of it, from a 20mm (less than 1 inch) barrel. I still wouldn't want to stand in front of one, even with a heavy overcoat.

The candidates for these conversions are S&W model 1 and open top Colts made for black powder .22 shorts -- revolvers that were feeble anyway and will never be anything more. A modern .22 short will blow most of these up. CB or BB caps are probably all you should shoot in them anyway.

The trick will be to make the chamber work ... do it wrong and the little ball won't even make it to the barrel. The good news is that there's lots of the ammo available, and it looks promising for this conversion. While normal .22 is heeled, these ball loads are slightly smaller than the casings. A Thousandth or two, hard to measure but you can feel it with your fingernail, and see it with the "eye-crometer".

I started looking for this "6mm Flobert" stuff because I had my eye on a tiny German single shot made in the caliber. I did get the seller (in the USA) to test it with a .22 short and of course that fit too, so much for that. By then I had tracked down the ammunition. The 2 watt bulb flickered again, and hey presto! A different dumb idea was born.

I just want to see these little prohibs turn into antiques. It would be cool. One less prohibited handgun, the world a better, safer place. I'm grinning already just thinking about it.

I'll post some pictures of the finished project and let you all know what CFC says. You've convinced me that it's worth a try. I'll pick the ugliest one and get busy.
 
fat tony said:
Can you get the 4mm rimfire shells from germany and rechamber it to that?

Pyramid Air has an article on those types of gallery rifles from the early 20th century from Germany usually.
Click to expand...

idk about 4mm rimfire but they do have a 4mm centerfire round that lothar walther uses in alot of they're adapters

i like the .22 bb cap as i can make my own and i dont have to wait for RWS to make a run of them (they still make the .22 bb cap)
 
S&B makes the BB cap ... no waiting.
These also have a neat little lip at the cartridge case / ball seam, the cartridge case is 1 to 1.5 thousandths bigger than the ball. I have my material, still waiting on the reamers... getting excited.

I fired a cylinder full and got decent accuracy at 5 meters out of my "otherwise antique" S&W Model 1. It looks like the firing pin needs some modest reshaping, it digs in deeper toward the center of the bullet than it does at the rim, so there were a few F-T-Fs with long pauses.

For totally idiotic conversion, if they reject my .22 CB, I'll redo the little guy in 22/177, using acorn blanks to propel a 177 bb. Shouldn't blow up the gun and that's definitely not on the list. I saw a Mexican made "bb gun" that did just that (1950s manufacture). Probably about the same as those 4mm rounds ... You can't get too much smaller than .22 at the back end of the cartridge though or the firing pin will miss the rim.
 
gunzik said:
S&B makes the BB cap ... no waiting.
These also have a neat little lip at the cartridge case / ball seam, the cartridge case is 1 to 1.5 thousandths bigger than the ball. I have my material, still waiting on the reamers... getting excited.

I fired a cylinder full and got decent accuracy at 5 meters out of my "otherwise antique" S&W Model 1. It looks like the firing pin needs some modest reshaping, it digs in deeper toward the center of the bullet than it does at the rim, so there were a few F-T-Fs with long pauses.

For totally idiotic conversion, if they reject my .22 CB, I'll redo the little guy in 22/177, using acorn blanks to propel a 177 bb. Shouldn't blow up the gun and that's definitely not on the list. I saw a Mexican made "bb gun" that did just that (1950s manufacture). Probably about the same as those 4mm rounds ... You can't get too much smaller than .22 at the back end of the cartridge though or the firing pin will miss the rim.
Click to expand...

if its cb cap then it may be rejected bb cap is shorter and will not

i did not know S&B made bb caps ive been saving my RWS stuff for quite a bit
 
gunzik said:
S&B makes the BB cap ... no waiting.
These also have a neat little lip at the cartridge case / ball seam, the cartridge case is 1 to 1.5 thousandths bigger than the ball. I have my material, still waiting on the reamers... getting excited.

I fired a cylinder full and got decent accuracy at 5 meters out of my "otherwise antique" S&W Model 1. It looks like the firing pin needs some modest reshaping, it digs in deeper toward the center of the bullet than it does at the rim, so there were a few F-T-Fs with long pauses.

For totally idiotic conversion, if they reject my .22 CB, I'll redo the little guy in 22/177, using acorn blanks to propel a 177 bb. Shouldn't blow up the gun and that's definitely not on the list. I saw a Mexican made "bb gun" that did just that (1950s manufacture). Probably about the same as those 4mm rounds ... You can't get too much smaller than .22 at the back end of the cartridge though or the firing pin will miss the rim.
Click to expand...

^This was going to be my next suggestion - IIRC they were still being made as late as the 1980s by a company called: (?) Mendoza?

The 4mm rimfire comes in long and short, you can reportedly get primed cases or filled(?) and ready to go. Google Zimmerstutzen. Sounds like across the pond there is a steady supply of them but over in Canada. . . (doubtful).
 
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