So I've only been shooting for a couple of years. I own a 92fs, xd9, p226, a .45 1911 and a 357 mag wheel gun. Probably fired 1500 rds between them plus another 2000 with my GSG 1911 .22. I chose these guns based on looks, review and recommendations without previous shooting experience. I am very happy with the choices but honestly...... I have no idea what makes them good guns. I can't tell if the trigger is crisp, sloppy or creepy they are all different. And accuracy??? hahaha, its all in the shooter. I am equally inaccurate with all of them lol. So, how do you guys rate your handguns how can you say that one is better, smoother and more reliable then the next one. How much of your opinion is actually influenced by the media hype. Am I asking this question because I haven't come across a crappy gun yet and have no comparison? Or maybe not experienced enough to pick up on small differences yet? Anyways, right now I just go by what others say.
confession
- Thread starter v-king
- Start date
I'm very surprised to hear that you can't notice an accuracy difference between the revolver and the semi's. The revolver in single action should easily out shoot a semi.
In my person experiences it seems like many people are quick to offer opinions based on what they've read or heard and have little or no person experience with the actual guns themselves. That being said I think there is definitely some features that are better on particular models of handguns. I for example hate decocker systems on pistols. I learn on a 1911 and they just feel very unnatural.
Most people have no idea if they're shooting a good gun or a lousy one.
That does not even slow them down on commenting on whether the gun is the greatest machine ever built, though.
You will see all kinds of people who have got no chance in hell of quantifying their opinions bring up stuff like "fit and finish" as though that were some kind of measurable criteria, for example. In the AR world, people often describe "wobble" between upper and lower as though it is somehow indicative of quality. In the handgun world, people obsess about trigger "feel" without a good understanding of what constitutes a good trigger (or how that can vary wildly based on individual preferences - some like a rolling break like a DA revolver, some like a hard break with a firm reset like a Glock).
Pro tip: 99% of what you read on internet forums is absolutely incorrect anyway. If it doesn't make sense to you...don't worry about it. It probably doesn't make sense, period.
That does not even slow them down on commenting on whether the gun is the greatest machine ever built, though.
You will see all kinds of people who have got no chance in hell of quantifying their opinions bring up stuff like "fit and finish" as though that were some kind of measurable criteria, for example. In the AR world, people often describe "wobble" between upper and lower as though it is somehow indicative of quality. In the handgun world, people obsess about trigger "feel" without a good understanding of what constitutes a good trigger (or how that can vary wildly based on individual preferences - some like a rolling break like a DA revolver, some like a hard break with a firm reset like a Glock).
Pro tip: 99% of what you read on internet forums is absolutely incorrect anyway. If it doesn't make sense to you...don't worry about it. It probably doesn't make sense, period.
I think the trigger on my savage axis is terrible but it still shoots 3/4" groups. It isn't too bad if you don't think about it when shooting a coyote. When target shooting you notice all the creep. You can pull the trigger three times before it breaks.
- Location
- Hudson Quebec Canada
Since I am a horrible shot with iron sights I seem to shoot equaly bad with semi's and revolvers but I confess that I do better with my 22s
Exactly what I'm talking about.
I'm no expert but definitely know what I like.
I can't help but repeat what I've read on the internet, but I try to limit my responses to things that I have real world experience in.
V-king, have you thought about taking a pistol course?
I know for myself that adding stress to something is a good way to judge if it works or not.
That goes for you, any given gun, and equipment.
I can't help but repeat what I've read on the internet, but I try to limit my responses to things that I have real world experience in.
V-king, have you thought about taking a pistol course?
I know for myself that adding stress to something is a good way to judge if it works or not.
That goes for you, any given gun, and equipment.
I base my opinion on 2 things. How well I shoot with it. How reliable it is with factory ammo. Reliability and accuracy are not mutually exclusive, but they are often a little bit of a trade.
That said, and as the OP alluded to, I know the same things for certain about guns and wine: whether or not I personally like them. In the end, what works perfectly for me, may be a total disappointment for you.
I am guilty of sometimes repeating hearsay, but I do try to at least say so when it is.
Based on my own real-life-genuine personal experience I can say that I like SIGs (P225/P220), don't like Browning Hi-Powers (at least not the CF issued variant), and I like SOME 1911's, thought it would be a long list to break down which I've loved and hated. I also really liked my CZ85Combat, which I will always regret selling. I will never be without a S&W 586 or 686 of some kind, as they are the most accurate out-of-the-box handguns I have ever used. YMMV
That said, and as the OP alluded to, I know the same things for certain about guns and wine: whether or not I personally like them. In the end, what works perfectly for me, may be a total disappointment for you.
I am guilty of sometimes repeating hearsay, but I do try to at least say so when it is.
Based on my own real-life-genuine personal experience I can say that I like SIGs (P225/P220), don't like Browning Hi-Powers (at least not the CF issued variant), and I like SOME 1911's, thought it would be a long list to break down which I've loved and hated. I also really liked my CZ85Combat, which I will always regret selling. I will never be without a S&W 586 or 686 of some kind, as they are the most accurate out-of-the-box handguns I have ever used. YMMV
For me, big factors are:
-feel: how it feels in my hand (ergonomics), and this also includes how it shoots and handles and balances for me. Grip size, bore axis, trigger reach, etc. This one is nothing but personal preference, it doesn't matter what anyone else thinks whatsoever.
-features: very closely related to feel and there is overlap but this one is more about the features on the gun itself vs how it affects my feel. How are the sights or how common are aftermarket sights? Do mags drop free? Are the serrations inadequate, too sharp, or right? Where are the switches and levers and buttons? Is the safety on the slide where it gives me grief when trying to manipulate? Is the slide lock right where my thumb is with my shooting grip so it doesn't lock open on empty? Aftermarket support is factored into this... I need holster and mag and part and ninja add on availability. A mix of personal preference and actual fact on this one (ie if a mag doesn't drop free... someone might not mind at all but the fact is it doesn't drop free).
-reliability: I have mentioned in a previous thread (then got bombarded with PMs lol) how I used to work at a rental range and saw a wide number of handguns go through around 2 million rounds of 9mm so I am fortunate to see with my own two eyes which guns were reliable and which were not. I really feel blessed for this experience. If it wasn't for this experience, I would need to rely more on Interwebs and other people's opinions which would be unfortunate because I feel like this one has nothing to do with preference and is nothing but quantitative, measurable facts. It doesn't matter if 1 person has a Brand X that has never jammed in 50,000 rounds or if someone has Brand Y that does nothing but jam. You consider all the Brand X and Brand Y out there and count.
This probably sums up what matters to me when choosing a gun. Oh wait... price lol. I'm not rich so if I have an available amount of funds, I gotta pick what I can afford or save up or whatever.
I also want to mention a couple of things that don't impact me at all when it comes to choosing guns, including a point OP brought up which is "media hype" or other people's opinion. Not going to lie, I don't give a crap. If I did, I would own a Shadow because everyone loves them and everyone thinks they feel great and they are easy to shoot. Now if someone whose opinion I value recommends me something, I'll definitely give it a shot but I truly don't let this influence my decision. Someone I like liking something doesn't make me like it, I have to be convinced myself.
Another thing that I don't care about is the trigger. I don't care if a trigger is light and crisp or heavy and mushy or whatever. Well, obviously I have preferences but they are not so strong that I bother with trigger jobs. A lot of people seem very focused on this and that's fair because obviously the trigger is very important. But it's just not a big deal to me and I would never buy or not buy a gun because of just the trigger. I find the trigger makes a bigger difference in feel when it comes to slow shooting tight groups. I rarely shoot like this though. I practice everything at speed in which case I don't even feel what the trigger is really doing which is why I think I'm not picky on triggers. I definitely was when I was starting to shoot and the trigger made a difference between a miss and a bullseye but now it makes no difference. Another note on triggers is that everybody I know prefers a lighter trigger except for me. A CZ Shadow has a single action trigger pull of 2.5lbs, it's so light, it's great. Not for me. 4.5-5.5 seems to be my sweet spot. I own 2 1911s and my gunsmithing friends always comment on the heavy triggers and offer to do work for me. No thanks.
-feel: how it feels in my hand (ergonomics), and this also includes how it shoots and handles and balances for me. Grip size, bore axis, trigger reach, etc. This one is nothing but personal preference, it doesn't matter what anyone else thinks whatsoever.
-features: very closely related to feel and there is overlap but this one is more about the features on the gun itself vs how it affects my feel. How are the sights or how common are aftermarket sights? Do mags drop free? Are the serrations inadequate, too sharp, or right? Where are the switches and levers and buttons? Is the safety on the slide where it gives me grief when trying to manipulate? Is the slide lock right where my thumb is with my shooting grip so it doesn't lock open on empty? Aftermarket support is factored into this... I need holster and mag and part and ninja add on availability. A mix of personal preference and actual fact on this one (ie if a mag doesn't drop free... someone might not mind at all but the fact is it doesn't drop free).
-reliability: I have mentioned in a previous thread (then got bombarded with PMs lol) how I used to work at a rental range and saw a wide number of handguns go through around 2 million rounds of 9mm so I am fortunate to see with my own two eyes which guns were reliable and which were not. I really feel blessed for this experience. If it wasn't for this experience, I would need to rely more on Interwebs and other people's opinions which would be unfortunate because I feel like this one has nothing to do with preference and is nothing but quantitative, measurable facts. It doesn't matter if 1 person has a Brand X that has never jammed in 50,000 rounds or if someone has Brand Y that does nothing but jam. You consider all the Brand X and Brand Y out there and count.
This probably sums up what matters to me when choosing a gun. Oh wait... price lol. I'm not rich so if I have an available amount of funds, I gotta pick what I can afford or save up or whatever.
I also want to mention a couple of things that don't impact me at all when it comes to choosing guns, including a point OP brought up which is "media hype" or other people's opinion. Not going to lie, I don't give a crap. If I did, I would own a Shadow because everyone loves them and everyone thinks they feel great and they are easy to shoot. Now if someone whose opinion I value recommends me something, I'll definitely give it a shot but I truly don't let this influence my decision. Someone I like liking something doesn't make me like it, I have to be convinced myself.
Another thing that I don't care about is the trigger. I don't care if a trigger is light and crisp or heavy and mushy or whatever. Well, obviously I have preferences but they are not so strong that I bother with trigger jobs. A lot of people seem very focused on this and that's fair because obviously the trigger is very important. But it's just not a big deal to me and I would never buy or not buy a gun because of just the trigger. I find the trigger makes a bigger difference in feel when it comes to slow shooting tight groups. I rarely shoot like this though. I practice everything at speed in which case I don't even feel what the trigger is really doing which is why I think I'm not picky on triggers. I definitely was when I was starting to shoot and the trigger made a difference between a miss and a bullseye but now it makes no difference. Another note on triggers is that everybody I know prefers a lighter trigger except for me. A CZ Shadow has a single action trigger pull of 2.5lbs, it's so light, it's great. Not for me. 4.5-5.5 seems to be my sweet spot. I own 2 1911s and my gunsmithing friends always comment on the heavy triggers and offer to do work for me. No thanks.
If you hang out at a range where people are firing some really exotic target pistols, and get a chance to fire one, you'll see & feel the difference. The beauty of that is that you'll have something to compare your own guns to, and have a direction to aspire to.
First, as some have said, a revolver, fired in single action, can give excellent accuracy. Why? Because the barrel & sights are solidly attached to one another, so the barrel alignment to the sights is permanently fixed. Many semi-autos, on the other hand, have a barrel that is separate from the sights (usually mounted on the slide, which moves independently of the barrel during cycling). If the barrel locks up in the slide, say, .0001" different from one shot to the next, the effect at, say 25 yards, is going to be measurable, and no amount of shooter expertise can cure that. Of course, most modern semi auto pistols lock up very well indeed, so for short range, off-hand shooting, there isn't much noticeable effect. Off the bench, though, it can be quite noticeable.
I learned what a truly perfect trigger & spectacular accuracy were when I first fired my .22 Olympic Margolin Vostok. This semi-auto pistol is different from most others in that, like a revolver, the barrel, sights, and frame are all a single, integral unit, and the slide moves independent of them. The gun has amazing, Olympic-quality sights, which give a crystal-clear picture, and this is an important feature in any truly accurate gun.
I'm considered a pretty good pistol shot (been doing it for around 50 years now), and this gun can out-shoot me, every day of the week. The trigger is amazing - in the hundreds of guns I've shot (and I've handled many times that number that I haven't had the opportunity to shoot), it's the lightest, crispest trigger I've ever seen, by a long margin. It's impossible to describe what it feels like accurately. Total trigger pull is probably less than 1 pound (or, around 1/4 of the pull weight of my IPSC pistol), and travels less than 2 mm from end of takeup through letoff. It's so light and crisp that you never know precisely when it's going to go...so flinch is impossible. Everybody who has ever fired it (I've let a lot of people shoot it) has been dead bang accurate with it.
Since owning that gun, I've known what I wanted in all the guns I've acquired since. None have ever matched it, of course, but the closer they are to it, the better shooters they are. In other words, now that I know what to look for in a gun, I know which ones will make me happy, and what mods I want to make to the ones I already have to bring them closer to my ideal.
I hope that helps...
First, as some have said, a revolver, fired in single action, can give excellent accuracy. Why? Because the barrel & sights are solidly attached to one another, so the barrel alignment to the sights is permanently fixed. Many semi-autos, on the other hand, have a barrel that is separate from the sights (usually mounted on the slide, which moves independently of the barrel during cycling). If the barrel locks up in the slide, say, .0001" different from one shot to the next, the effect at, say 25 yards, is going to be measurable, and no amount of shooter expertise can cure that. Of course, most modern semi auto pistols lock up very well indeed, so for short range, off-hand shooting, there isn't much noticeable effect. Off the bench, though, it can be quite noticeable.
I learned what a truly perfect trigger & spectacular accuracy were when I first fired my .22 Olympic Margolin Vostok. This semi-auto pistol is different from most others in that, like a revolver, the barrel, sights, and frame are all a single, integral unit, and the slide moves independent of them. The gun has amazing, Olympic-quality sights, which give a crystal-clear picture, and this is an important feature in any truly accurate gun.
I'm considered a pretty good pistol shot (been doing it for around 50 years now), and this gun can out-shoot me, every day of the week. The trigger is amazing - in the hundreds of guns I've shot (and I've handled many times that number that I haven't had the opportunity to shoot), it's the lightest, crispest trigger I've ever seen, by a long margin. It's impossible to describe what it feels like accurately. Total trigger pull is probably less than 1 pound (or, around 1/4 of the pull weight of my IPSC pistol), and travels less than 2 mm from end of takeup through letoff. It's so light and crisp that you never know precisely when it's going to go...so flinch is impossible. Everybody who has ever fired it (I've let a lot of people shoot it) has been dead bang accurate with it.
Since owning that gun, I've known what I wanted in all the guns I've acquired since. None have ever matched it, of course, but the closer they are to it, the better shooters they are. In other words, now that I know what to look for in a gun, I know which ones will make me happy, and what mods I want to make to the ones I already have to bring them closer to my ideal.
I hope that helps...
As a rule but not always the more you spend on the gun the more you get and the better it will be. But all guns are made for different purposes so one thing on one gun will be different or better then on another. You just have to choose as others have stated what you like and what you don't. For me I want all my guns to have adjustable sights on them as I only target show these days.
Graydog
Graydog
I see that your in Sooke, I'm in East Sooke. I was looking at a Margolin for sale at Pullins. I only tried the trigger once, it seemed to be a two stage and not a two ounce single like your describing. Have you been by Pullins lately and seen the one he has?
I did see it. It appears to be one of the more "sporting" models, as opposed to the "target" models. The latter came in a stout, velvet-lined wooden box, containing muzzle break, muzzle weights, palm shelf, a large assortment of sight blades (front and rear), various trigger springs/sears/hammers, full cleaning kit, and enough spare parts to make most of another gun. The sporting version was fitted with a stiffer trigger, no provision for some of the target add-ons, etc. Even so, they are an amazing pistol, and even the sports versions are extremely accurate.
I haven't priced the one at Pullens, but they can still be had at good prices**. In my view, the target version is the best to get, if you can find one. They can be stripped down to resemble the sporting version for plinking, but retain the amazing target trigger & sights that way.
Edit: **Okay, apparently they've gone up in value since I last looked a couple of decades ago (one less complete than mine recently sold on GunsAmerica for $1295 USD. Well, they USED to be cheap. I'd still recommend grabbing one up if you come across one in a gunshop somewhere. It appears their charms have been recognized...
I was actually pretty impressed with the design and construction, seems very well made. I was even more impressed when I read that Margolin was totally blind when he designed it. I found there's an interest in these pistols and an active group of Margolin groupies on the internet. I'm not interested in esoteric Olympic style pistols as my skills are lacking but the Margolin sporter really appeals to me. Time to learn more.
Wow! What a broad and misleading statement. A good Ruger single action will be more accurate than a military 1911, but there the comparison sort of ends.
Any good 22 semi auto I have ever shot, will out shoot a good 22 revolver. The Browning Medalist is machine rest tested to group one inch at 50 yards.
And what centre fire revolver will out shoot a S&W Model 52, 38 Special?
For me it's extremely simple. I'm not in the military or law enforcement, so it's not an offensive weapon. I can't have it with me outside of my home and range, so it's not a defensive weapon. I'm not a hunter, so it's not a tool.
So what is it? IT'S COOOOOOOOOOOOOOL!!! That's why I buy guns. I buy the ones that make me happy. Which is why the crown of my collection is a tiger striped Desert Eagle 50AE. I'm more accurate with some of my guns than others but like you, I have no idea if it's the gun or me or Santa Claus. I just find it awesome, everything from choosing one, looking for it, owning it, shooting it and cleaning it.
And I know I'm pretty f'en far from alone in this. No one at the range asks about my 92FS or M&P, but everyone wants to try the shiny 50.
So what is it? IT'S COOOOOOOOOOOOOOL!!! That's why I buy guns. I buy the ones that make me happy. Which is why the crown of my collection is a tiger striped Desert Eagle 50AE. I'm more accurate with some of my guns than others but like you, I have no idea if it's the gun or me or Santa Claus. I just find it awesome, everything from choosing one, looking for it, owning it, shooting it and cleaning it.
And I know I'm pretty f'en far from alone in this. No one at the range asks about my 92FS or M&P, but everyone wants to try the shiny 50.
