did i do something wrong?

U

uchi

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so im a little confused with some results i got today. ive managed to get some pretty good loads made up for my remington 700 30-06. 180 gr sierra game kings at 52.5 gr powder and according to the book theyre coming out at about 2650 fps. thats just from the book and i dont have a chrono to confirm it. at 100 yards the gun is pretty accurate, and i think if i would check for run out and also take my oal to a tighter tolerance i could tighten up my groups, plus practice on my end, right now my oal is within 5 thou. i was out a couple weeks ago and after a half dozen fowlers i managed to put this out to 100 yards.

5 shots in here, first there were the tight group then last two went a bit high and a flier. regardless it was a pretty damn good group and the best ive managed, so at 100y, squares are 1"
target.jpg


went back today, the groups were almost as good but a hair bigger, could be from the gun needing a cleaning, shes just over 100 rounds since the last time i cleaned her. ran the exact same loads from the last batch and after 8 or 9 shots to 100 the groups tightened up as the barrel warmed up a hair and so i thought id take my chances and go to 200.

the first group with what would be a hot barrel was crap, and low,6+ inches low. it could be the cheap tasco scope i was using not giving me a clear sight on the target, i could see it but the cheap scope has cheap glass, could be a bit too much caffeine i had in the morning, regardless i was using a rear bag and bi pod and wasnt too happy.
IMG_20121203_140100.jpg


so i let her cool off for 10 minutes and tried again and ended up with better results. now this from what i can tell is still sub moa for 200 yards, but i thought it would have been much tighter based on what the 100y target looked like

IMG_20121203_140028.jpg


my issue was the 5-6 inch drop with a 100y zero. seems excessive to me. so im stuck, do i go to a lighter bullet, or do i try using a hotter load to bring up the velocity a bit and keep that bullet from dropping off so fast? this powder load has presented me with the tightest groups ive been able to shoot out of this gun ever so if anything ill fine tune it, im jsut lost as to why its dropped that much.
 
You have many possible variable issues from what I am reading. At least you not excluding those variables as a possibility of your result change, which is a good start.
My range max out at 200m, one of my rifle can group 5 shots the size of one of our quarter all day long. This can be acheive only if the outside is over 10 degrees.
If I try at a 100M, I get a little bit more than a MOA.
I so far, I was never never able to reproduce my summer load performance in cold weather.

What I am saying is that for me, weather and distance was always and still is a performance factor on my reloads. This is true for me even if the gun is "perfect" (good scope, mount, clean bore, bedded action...)
Sub Moa at 100M will not always be within a inch at 200M, just like a one hole 5 rounds groups doesn't mean one hole at 100M

Well at least this is how it is for me

Good with your tests
 
without a crony you could have 2400 fps. book velocity often varies quite a bit from real life. low velocity would explain the drop. you give a powder charge but not what powder. a good load i have found for the 06 would be 56 to 57 grns of imr 4350 and a good 180 grn bullet. your sierra would be perfect.
 
sorry i forgot to include it, imr 4350 is what im using. 56-57 isnt even listed in the sierra book under that bullet and this powder, have you had any over pressure issues with your loads with that much powder? the page i was looking at was showing a max of 55.5gr. what load are you using with this powder and a 180gr bullet? ill load up a handful and see what they come out like next time i go shooting. i was thinking of going to a lighter bullet but was happy to have finally found a load that groups that well for me, i just couldnt get over how much it dropped to 200. how much drop are you seeing from 100 to 200? about 2 inches?
 
First one looks real good Uchi. Most people hold a coin up to the photo to cover those flyers ;)
 
lol well i have nothing to hide, those are 1 inch squares and i felt myself pull on that shot. sadly it was only out to 100 yards in the first picture. id love something that tight out to 200. as mentioned above i think im lacking velocity, i went by the book and guessed at what it may be coming out at, so ill try a few slightly hotter loads and see what i can come up with. the last pic without getting out my measuring tool at 200 yards still looks sub moa to me.

im also starting to wonder if that wider spread at 200 would now be caused by a dirty barrel, i was at or just over 100 rounds through her over about 5 range trips when i went out today, it would explain why the spread was a bit wider than what im expecting from it, and the drop is a velocity thing for sure. damn it now im going to load some rounds, this is gonna drive me nuts
 
Yep, try 56-57 gns IMR4350 with a Nosler 180 gn AB and set it .010 off the lands. It should give you almost 2800 fps and sight 'er in 3" high at 100 mtrs........you're a killing machine out to 400 mtrs with practice and holding boiler room to 300 mtrs.
Your load is probably about 23-2400 fps in winter temps, hence the drop. Read the temps in the manual that the loads were tested at, probably 70 deg F or 20 deg C.
RL 17 is supposed to do 2900 in an 06 with a 180 but I don't currently have one to play with.
 
kamlooky said:
Uchi, that's a center fire, not a rim fire.
100 rounds without a rag............owuchi......f:P:2:.....:rey2
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haha i know, i can usually go 70 or 80 rounds without having to clean her and shes still accurate to 100, i find the only time accuracy has dropped off significantly is when she gets too hot, but i primarily shoot 100 so i wasnt seeing what the bullet was doing past that. for the record my rimfire is at about 500 and hasnt been cleaned, haha.
 
c-fbmi said:
Yep, try 56-57 gns IMR4350 with a Nosler 180 gn AB and set it .010 off the lands. It should give you almost 2800 fps and sight 'er in 3" high at 100 mtrs........you're a killing machine out to 400 mtrs with practice and holding boiler room to 300 mtrs.
Your load is probably about 23-2400 fps in winter temps, hence the drop. Read the temps in the manual that the loads were tested at, probably 70 deg F or 20 deg C.
RL 17 is supposed to do 2900 in an 06 with a 180 but I don't currently have one to play with.
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i was doing some google reading and noticed a bunch of guys mention the rl17 in an 06 and a 180 gr and like the combo, also said the 4350 was a top three powder for their choices, ive got a pound and a half of it to burn through so ill grab some rl17 next time im buying loading stuff along with some noslers. right now i just bought 200 rounds of the 180 gr game kings so im stuck with those until i shoot them off. i loaded 5 loads, went as high as 55.5 gr only because i used this powder with some 168 gr hornady bullets and went to the max load in the book and was starting to have issues with over pressures, so if the 55.5 comes out of the gun fine ill go up to 57 and see what the produces. im thinking ill go and load up some 56, 56.5 and 57 gr as well, if i start seeing over pressure i have a bullet puller and i can just pull things apart.

ill check the book on the temps because im curious, we were shooting around 2 pm and it was around 12 degrees today. update to follow after my next range trip, hopefully this week. thanks for all the help guys, very much appreciated.

whats the max velocity an 06 can safely fly at? is there a speed it shouldnt reach for whatever reason?
 
I know sometimes I forget, but pay real close attention to the vertical placement of
your rifle on the bags.
Canted either left or right a smidge will get you moving off windage a bit.
All things need to be in order to place tight groups.
I tend to watch good shooters shoot at the range.
Watch what they do..........it's a great refreshener.
 
My standard load for the .30-06 is 56gr. of IMR 4350; with nosler partitions I get around 2750, with "normal" bullets like the core-lokt or Win. power-point, the velocity drops below 2700. 52.5 grs is probably giving you 300 savage ballistics.

You obviously have access to a 200 yd range so zero your rifle at that distance, and you should have a bullet rise of about 2-2.5" @ 100yds.
 
Great to know thanks guys. I've got some new loads made up and I'll make a few more tonight and find my way to the range and develop these guys at 200y, its as far as I can take them. I just figured if I made a load that was tight to 100 I'd send it off further and I'd have decent results. As for the rifle, it shoots off a bike pod and rear bag. Problem is the tables at the range really aren't level so I try to adjust the leg heights till it looks level. All great info thanks again.
 
savage.3006 said:
I was told by a wise old man, always do load development at 200 plus yards, lots of loads can shoot well at 100 yards.
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If a load deosn't shoot at 100, it won't shoot at 200. The 100 yard point is not some arbitrary point in space at which bullets open up and fly in different directions. You also need to delvelop using a technique for the type of shooting you do. hunting rifles need to hit the target from an ice cold bore, hot groups are kind of pointless really. You want accuracy more than precision with a hunting rifle. How accurate do they need to be? The heart is about 3-4MOA on a deer at 100 yards

whats the max velocity an 06 can safely fly at? is there a speed it shouldnt reach for whatever reason?
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Safety in speed isn't the limiting factor. Too fast and the bullet flies apart, but more often than not, the case pressures exceed what is safe before you have issues with bullet velocity.
 
Remember it is slowing down the second 100 yds and there is more time for wind effect on the bullet, still not all that bad. Cheers Roscoe
 
It is not possible to experience over-rotational bullet failure with a factory '06 and any rifle bullet on the market today. Don't concern yourself with details like these, work up a load to the next accuracy node of your rifle, watching your brass for excessive expansion signs. Over-rotational bullet failure USUALLY only occurs in ultra velocity wildcats, when playing with different twists and bullet weights. My 22-284 with a 1-8 twist vaporizes 80 gn Sierras at 3750 fps, about 20 mtrs from the muzzle.
As I have preached many times on several forums, your brass is your weakest link in any metallic cartridge loading.....keep your eyes on your brass, it will tell you when enough is enough and too much is too much.
There is nothing wrong with load and accuracy testing at 200 yds, or 300 yds or any range you like. I don't think you learn any more at longer ranges, but you certainly don't learn any less either.
 
All really good information thanks for taking the time to type it out. Someone had mentioned looking for shiney spots on through brass as signs of over pressure, also I've loaded some lighter bullets a little too hot and it made it hard to open the bolt. With cases that have been subject to over pressure should they just be thrown out or will the metal contract enough when it cools down a bit to use again, then again with the added stress is it safe to use them again ? I've got about 450 pieces of brass so I'm not really concerned with losing a few while load developing, I just don't want the gun exploding In my face, its not a pretty face but its all I have. Lol
 
The brass is either safe to reload or it is not. More often hot loads make brass wear out sooner, but you must determine this by inspecting the cases before loading every time as described in all manuals. Also some brands or batches of brass are made better or worse and this can also affect how long they last under different conditions.

I would not throw a piece of brass out just because I shot a high end load in it, but I also would not use a piece of brass that I felt was unsafe. You will have to figure out between the manuals, other shooters opinions and your own experience what brass you should, or should not continue to load.
 
fair enough, ive been reloading for almost a year now so theres still plenty to learn but im doing what i can. ill go through my manual again and get a refresher on reading cases. thanks for the reply
 
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