unanswered question about the new T97

TV-PressPass said:
Cadgo, I can never take your anger seriously with that happy dancing hippo in your sigline. :D

He's dancing right?

I would say there is a crucial difference between promoting a product that is "non-restricted" and a product that is just about to get non-restricted status.

People might be angry about that difference, and I could understand that from them.
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I am happy its not approved yet. I missed out on the first type-97 drama and now I am in on the type-97 drama part 2. Should have my post count up to like 5000 by the time its over right!?
 
ghostie said:
Type 97A Sniper Rifle - FRT 129752 (dash 1 and 2) - 5.56MM NATO - 620mm barrel (24.5") - Non-restricted (this is the T88 sniper being sold by T.I.)
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I a have feeling North Sylva has directly contracted Jianshe Industries to produce the new rifles out to be a QBU88 carbine variant. If this is indeed the case, we may finally win this time around.

But the flipside is this, what if now the legal T88s already in the country will be banned too once the new T97NSRs dock into port? I do not want to see history repeat itself again and for the worse.
 
I'll wait till all the hype is over, like there was for the NP-29 and Ruger SR1911.
Then I'll see what the reviews are, on the final product.
I'll let them work the kinks out and then buy one that's from a third or 4th batch, and not so prototypish.
Or maybe I'll just do the smart thing and buy a Tavor.:)
 
trebor2880 said:
I'll wait till all the hype is over, like there was for the NP-29 and Ruger SR1911.
Then I'll see what the reviews are, on the final product.
I'll let them work the kinks out and then buy one that's from a third or 4th batch, and not so prototypish.
Or maybe I'll just do the smart thing and buy a Tavor.:)
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Has anyone even done a proper review on the tavor. Where are all the range reports showing off groups?
 
tootall said:
Could it be listed under another name like Polytech?
Norinco doesnt actually build guns, they are just the marketing machine for the Chinese state arms factories, IIRC.


I sort of got caught up in the excitement as well. I updated my 4 year old YouTube video.
[youtube]NK1Hi1t1CwE[/youtube]
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From the looks of that video, and if the T97NSA ejects the same way, I dont see why you couldnt shoot that rifle left handed. It ejects forwards and the ejection port looks far enough forwards.... But only testing can say for sure.
 
I've been able to confirm now that a firearm called the "T97NS Prototype" made by Poly Technologies was issued an FRT# some time within the last four weeks and was classified as a Prohibited firearm. The "Legal Authority" for the classification is para. (c) of the definition of "Prohibited Firearm" in s. 84(1) of the Criminal Code (i.e., it falls within the definition of "automatic firearm" as that term is defined in the Criminal Code and in common law/Hasselwander)

This is the same legal basis that all the T97A's were prohibited (except the "T97A Sniper"/T88).

Note that this is "T97NS Prototype", not "NSR Prototype". Presumably the T97NSR Prototype is about to be sent in any time now, representing the next round of trying to get a classification other than Prohibited. I have it on good authority that the time frame for a decision is running at 6-12 months right now. So a positive decision ASAP would put this firearm over to June 2013 at the earliest, probably 2014 at the latest... if the classification is other than Prohibited.

Again, I'm not trying to rock the boat here, but Canadian gun owners work for their money and ought to have this information when deciding whether or not to put down a deposit on a prospective firearm.
 
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Ghostie, have you seen the response submitted my North Sylva? Back on page 2 of this thread.

My bad.

Just read your post more closely. Interesting that a T97NS was submitted. I wonder what the status of the T97NSR sample really is?
 
I placed mine yesterday and the vendor says they will call me for my CC info only when they are ready to ship. I'm not holding my breath on this but should it should it happen to get the green light, then I ok too. I agree there is still so much to be done and time to pass before we even get to know if its a yea or nay.
 
ghostie said:
At least one retailer was (and still is) taking $250 deposits. They also say "approved for Canada as Non-Restricted". The combination of these two facts is where the problem lies, as I see it.
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If that Retailer is stating that "approved for Canada as Non-Restricted" and taking Money. SHAME on them.

Do we want that kind of business here on CGN?
 
ghostie said:
I've been able to confirm now that a firearm called the "T97NS Prototype" made by Poly Technologies was issued an FRT# some time within the last four weeks and was classified as a Prohibited firearm. The "Legal Authority" for the classification is para. (c) of the definition of "Prohibited Firearm" in s. 84(1) of the Criminal Code (i.e., it falls within the definition of "automatic firearm" as that term is defined in the Criminal Code and in common law/Hasselwander)

This is the same legal basis that all the T97A's were prohibited (except the "T97A Sniper"/T88).

Note that this is "T97NS Prototype", not "NSR Prototype". Presumably the T97NSR Prototype is about to be sent in any time now, representing the next round of trying to get a classification other than Prohibited. I have it on good authority that the time frame for a decision is running at 6-12 months right now. So a positive decision ASAP would put this firearm over to June 2013 at the earliest, probably 2014 at the latest... if the classification is other than Prohibited.

Again, I'm not trying to rock the boat here, but Canadian gun owners work for their money and ought to have this information when deciding whether or not to put down a deposit on a prospective firearm.
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Interesting. Makes me wonder if they are simply prohibiting it because it is a similar looking firearm... Or just giving us the finger.

rivetc78 said:
If that Retailer is stating that "approved for Canada as Non-Restricted" and taking Money. SHAME on them.

Do we want that kind of business here on CGN?
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I do believe that the retailer was misinformed. Hardly Gary's fault. Don't jump to conclusions without knowing the whole story.

J
 
driller212 said:
I do believe that the retailer was misinformed. Hardly Gary's fault. Don't jump to conclusions without knowing the whole story.
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Oh, I completely agree with you. The Garys are some of the most decent people in the firearms business in BC. I fully believe that they were misinformed, but the truth is well known now and they need to fix up their end of this. It's no big mea culpa, it's just "Sorry guys we thought it was approved already. We aren't taking any more deposits at this time." That's it. The desposits are all refundable anyway.

I think this whole thing should be treated as a learning experience for Canadian firearms businesses. The T97A changed the way importing semi-automatic firearms works in this country, and it changed it for the worse. Some of the businesses have adapted to this new reality faster and better than others. Hopefully the fallout from this can help bring more of the industry up to speed. You have to have a working sample and get it approved now. There is no other way anymore (at least in terms of what they call a "semi-automatic version of an automatic firearm"). Businesses should not be taking pre-orders where the sample is not approved in my view, especially with a name like T97 that has so much baggage. Once it is approved and the shipment is being built at the factory, sure... pre-order away, but not before. It just creates too much hostility, especially if the classification ends up being Prohibited.

On your other point, I'm curious about that one too. Surely to God the T97NS Prototype had a different trigger group than the T97A. If it had the same type of trigger group, then that is why it was prohibited... but if it didn't, I wonder what the real technical basis for finding that it fell within the definition of "automatic firearm" was? Unfortantely this makes me think that the name "T97" has become part of the problem, even though it is obviously not a "named prohib". If I was advising a potential importer, I would definiately say change the name. Just come up with QBR-02 or something like that. I really believe the name "T97" is a millstone around the neck of any application, regardless of trigger group. It is not the full story, but I don't think it is a neutral factor either.

I want to be positive guys, but we have to (collectively) realize what we are up against. When the RCMP and the Dept. of Justice went after the T97A, they went after it "all the way". It was ugly there for awhile. And now here we are, another year later, fighting among ourselves again, and they are still classifing our desired products prohibited. I don't know how, but I would love to find a way for CGN'ers and others to come together to collectively work toward our objectives.
 
I agree ghostie.

I think if they (North Sylva) really feel this one cant be converted to full auto they should take it to court if it does indeed get deemed prohibited. I would help fund such a case.

We cant always let ourselves get bullied around. I can find it incredibly aggravating to be a Canadian firearms enthusiast now that I know a lot of what is happening in regards to Canadian firearms classification and law.

As far as the pre-order goes, it does look like someone jumped the gun (no pun intended). And I agree it will cause the retailers and NS a lot of grief if these do get deemed prohibited. Although the thought of a non-res bullpup that I can afford is a nice thought.

I went into this knowing full well if it does even get deemed NR it will probably take a long time to classify and get distributed etc. This could be a victory for Canadian firearms owners, or a loss. Time will tell.
 
When did CGN appoint you the attack dog. Just the other day you try to rip a strip off ghostie (OP) whilst defending the retailers. Now it is ban the retailer. WOW, you really need to think it through before you post. Shame on you :mad:

CGNer should band together, share info and work smartly together rather than jump to conclusions.
rivetc78 said:
If that Retailer is stating that "approved for Canada as Non-Restricted" and taking Money. SHAME on them.

Do we want that kind of business here on CGN?
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Thanks for all the information Ghostie! I would like to be optimistic that something like this would come to market in Canada, but will certainly be waiting until the green light actually comes on.
 
burnaby said:
When did CGN appoint you the attack dog. Just the other day you try to rip a strip off ghostie (OP) whilst defending the retailers. Now it is ban the retailer. WOW, you really need to think it through before you post. Shame on you :mad:
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rivet thrives on controversy. ;)

So realistically it's going to be June 2013 (or later), because I can't imagine things will progress much with the FRT over the holidays. Again, assuming the "NSR" is approved. And until they have written approval, they won't start manufacturing, so... late Summer or Fall?
 
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