Is the Dream Dead?

Is the Dream Dead?

  • Yes. Done as in dinner.

    Votes: 180 35.1%

  • Maybe. Only time will tell...

    Votes: 205 40.0%

  • No! Alive and kicking!

    Votes: 128 25.0%
  • Total voters
    513
Terrible that this woman had a psychotic son with access to her guns... innocent lives lost at the hands of a monster and the firearms community takes the blame.
I'm hoping reason will triumph by the end of the week.

If any new laws need to be pushed, the only realistic one would be for Americans to be more responsible for their guns when not in use (i.e. locked in a safe, and yes... that means not letting your unstable kid know the combination or where the keys are at.)

Any new "BANS" in the US are going to be useless; how many firearms already exist in private hands that will be "grandfathered?"

Keep everything as-is, but put more emphasis (for the Americans) on knowing where one's guns are when not in use This is the only law I would support and it is really just common sense.
 
Here are my 2 cents.

1) The dream never existed in any realistic way.
2) We are extremely lucky no one has thought of revisiting the Criminal Code and updating it. If someone does, and realizes the amount of little loop holes in it (ex Tavors and XCRs and LAR15 mags, etc.) more things will be thrown onto the restricted list. It is very easy to read between the lines and see where they were trying to go with the prohib and restricted lists, I wouldn't be surprised if someone were to try to add anything with a flash suppressor to the restricted list (like in California).
3) ATTs are the only thing making the idea of restricted weapons possible. The vast majority of the public has no idea that you can carry a cased Glock or 1911 on the bus or train or subway on the way to your local gun range if you have an ATT. As for storage, I hope we can all agree that our storage laws make perfect sense and I'm willing to bet money that they have saved lives.
4) Mag capacity. That bank robbery in LA way back when is the perfect reason why the public would never agree with large capacity mags. It sucks having to re-load at the range ever 5-10 rounds but but again, it's a small concession for actually being able to own and use weapons that were designed for more.
5) The reality is that us gun nutz are a relatively small community, I strongly suspect that the overwhelming majority of Canadians has absolutely no appetite for laxer gun laws. Why? Because on paper they appear to be working. Look at all the developed countries in the world that have strong (restrictive) gun laws, the rates of gun-related homicides are minuscule per-capita when compared to that one big developed country with almost no rules: the USA.
6) Mass shootings are THE trump card for Antis. What politician is going to be willing to stand up to push a de-restriction agenda when the first question they will be asked is "what about Ecole Polytechnique? What about Dawson?" Etc. again, we are not the majority who realize that anyone on a homicidal mission can make do with out without our laws.
7) This is more food for thought: in Halifax, the large majority of firearms used in gang related crime have been stolen from lawful owners. If 1 out of every 10 houses has firearms there would be a decent chance of stumbling across one as a criminal doing B&Es. Now if there were firearms in 1 out of every 1000 houses (Britain comes to mind), then B&Es may be a harder way to get guns. Would criminals just start looking to smuggle from the South? Probably, but like I said, food for thought.
8) Who here an come up with a sound argument (that will appeal to more than say 60% of Canadians) that civilians should be able to own weapons that at one time or another have been issued to militaries for the purpose of going to war and killing people? Look at the Middle East and Africa and even parts of South America. When everyone has access to an assault rifle and people suddenly become upset with the government you end up with very serious problems. I would argue that one of the reasons Egypt hasn't descended into civil war, like Lybia and Syria have, is because they were forced to use civil disobedience rather than the AK to push for change.
9) I am skeptical that anything will change in the USA. I think they firearms problem has hit critical mass. There are just too many mags and firearms out there for anyone to control. No to mention, as we speak, every single Amermican that feels the need to armed to the teeth is going out to buy a gun before it's too late. Every time there is a shooting their gun sales surge.

My thoughts for the day.

And for the record, I am not an Anti but I am pro-control simply because it forces a certain amount of responsibility and accountability onto gun-owners. I have always likened it to owning and driving a car. You want the priveledge? Get a license.

Oh, and I also own an XCR, 10 round mags, an SR-22 and other scary toys that I have great fun using.
 
I'm certainly gonna downsize my handgun collection before the next federal election,
'cause when the left-wing socialists get in, any handguns and all semi long guns, will be on the chopping block...wanna bet!
 
Sure. What are the stakes?

I've said before that the climate just doesn't exist in Canada anymore for blanket bans and confiscations. The time for that was immediately after Montreal and the years that followed under the Liberals. We've had twenty years of largely ineffective gun control and the LGR is dead, which effectively makes mass confiscations impossible. They have to stop them when imported now. And yes they could go house to house using the licenses as a guide. But really, the RCMP don't even bother to bust people for possession anymore. No way are they going to get onboard a years long project to search under sheds for some SKS.
 
trebor2880 said:
I'm certainly gonna downsize my handgun collection before the next federal election,
'cause when the left-wing socialists get in, any handguns and all semi long guns, will be on the chopping block...wanna bet!
Click to expand...

I'll bet. Handguns have always been on the chopping block that is nothing new. All semi long guns NAA they don't want my 1100 12ga or 5 shot mag 7400 rem that jams after 3 rounds anyway. This same concern was with many after the montreal shooting
Anything however that they think even looks like a AR will be on the block for sure.
 
We have been here before. Back when Marc Lepine flipped out.

All the politicians were yapping gun control, everyone was blaming gun club duffers and Fudds, and Alan Rock was waving his fat little fists around and screeching about house to house searches to confiscate guns. On our own side - we were divided. The guys here gave sanctimonious speeches about writing informative letters to journalists and editors that only laughed at them as they kept pounding the anti-gun drum. Our community divided between those with the attitude of 'Come and get them' and those that figured we were obligated to compromise with swine that wanted to disarm us.

Only this time, we know a few things. For example - Marc Lepine wasn't a frenchman, he was a the son of a moslem immigrant that beat his wife and his kid as a matter of principle. Gun control did not save one life and it actively alienated pretty much all Canadians that live outside Ontario and Quebec. Politicians that propose to curb crime by going after us are going to be met with a veritable chit storm of negative public opinion.

I disagree with our forum management about dealing with anti-gunners. Our tone should not be one of courtesy and respect because they will not reciprocate. Our tone should be 'SHOVE YOUR GUN CONTROL' and we should mean it. We should cancel subscriptions to hostile media outlets, we should boycott their advertisers and lean on them and we shouldn't back down or compromise.

None of this backlash against us is fair, or right, or forgiveable.
 
The dream is dead for at least the remainder of this election cycle.

The topic of gun law changes has the potential to turn into one of those "not with a 10-foot pole" topics for Harper, like abortion and ### rights. The last thing we want is for this topic to become too toxic for the CPC to touch. We need to lay off until at least the spring and people start becoming naturally more positive and relaxed from all the extra sunshine.
 
Yes, what counts is not the reality but the perception of the population. And its pretty much done, for many many many years at least.
 
Dead if we don't get a national gun lobby ASAP
We NEED to figure out a way for every gun owners to contribute to it.

A few of us supporting Cssa,NFA and NRA won't do it. We need to merge it all
I pay my membership every year and not much happen
 
Ive actually be surprised at the level of "its not the guns fault" ive been hearing is more mainstream news. Experts have been heard talking about better gun safety and storage but that banning guns from law abiding citizens isnt the answer.

I have no fear for my Non restricted guns. The government cant do a sweeping house to house confiscation. They have no right to come into our homes and I dont think the greater population of the country would support this. Im also not really afraid for my handgun. For the most part I dont think people are as afraid of hand guns as they are of "assault rifles". Its strange how the public attention seems to have changed. Hand guns are already so controlled I cant see any arguments in canada to ban them all together. I can see a crack down on letting more "scary" guns onto the restricted or non restricted lists. Guns like the T97 and others waiting approval will probably be waiting a long time and may be met with negative responses.

I travel to the US and do alot of business in all over the US. Im there a couple times a month. Ive been to places where guns are more restricted than they are here and ive been to places where its almost expected to wear a gun on your hip. I personally know dozens of americans who own dozens of guns... guns that are prohibited here. My feeling is that the right to bear arms is constitutional. Its not going to change. But what types of guns you can own likely will. Or at least the ease of acquiring those guns will change. And I cant say I disagree with that. I think people who want to own guns SHOULD be screened. Once your deemed safe, I think you should be allowed to own more guns than we can now. But I dont think it makes any sense that you can simply write a test, wait a few months and go out and buy a VZ58 and 1200 rounds of ammo. No one ever asks you if your crazy, no one sits down with you to make sure your not suicidal or dangerous. Its probably not a popular opinion, but I think you SHOULD have a meeting with someone who signs off on your mental state before you get your license

I think in the US this is even more true. There are ALOT of crazies in the US with ALOT of guns. I think they need way tighter storage laws, way tighter controls on who can purchase what and way more monitoring of who has what. Ive always felt that there should be some sort of graduated system. You get your PAL, then you can buy bolt guns to a maximum caliber (reasonable for hunting). After so long your able to obtain semi auto guns in a certain class or with certain attributes. Then once youve proven you can savely handle these types of guns you can move on to the bigger, blacker stuff. This would limit an unstable person from getting their PAL and simply heading out to buy an SKS and removing the limiter.

My final point is this. All the talk of mag restrictions is just silly. We all know it. But my feelings are that if a person is smart enough to figure out how to get guns, get ammo and load it. Chances are they are smart enough to use a drill and pull out the limiter pin from any hi-cap magazine. Which tells me 2 things. First, Good people like us have proven we SHOULD be allowed to have hi cap mags (lets say even just 10 rounds or 15 rounds or something) and second, that crimes are not being committed with legal guns. Criminals will find ways to get/do what they want. Crazy people will find ways to act crazy. If your guns are locked up safe there really shouldnt be a problem.
 
Ya the dream is dead. Been with the wife for a decade now and she still doesn't have a ginger girlfriend she brings home.......that's what we're talking about, right?
 
I know a lot of people will disagree with you on the licensing issue, but I always felt fine with taking a course.

In fact, when the conversation comes up with non-shooters I put it this way:

I want more controls and more options:

I want to be able to own 12.X class firearms. And I would be happy to pay a fee and take a course and go through a background check to make that happen.

Same thing with prohibited devices. Let me go through an application process for suppressors and high caps. I'm okay with that.

I've been having more gun control talks with non-shooters lately, and the point I try to impress on them is that:

* In America, they believe their guns are for shooting other people. They list defence as a legitimate reason to own a firearm.

* In Canada, we don't. Thats the end of it. If you go to the government when you apply for your license and say "I need this gun because I might have to shoot someone who wants to harm me" you won't get your license.

And all the non-shooters I've told that feel good about it. Because it says that we're in a different mindset than the Americans.

Now there may be lots of Canadians who talk about CCW and bear defense and all kinds of other purposes for their firearms. But in an official capacity, my guns aren't for shooting anyone.
 
I think we're all pretty much f**ked in terms of progress. Just this morning I mentioned to a co-worker the CBC article about lifting 'gun-free zones' in the state schools and he went on this obnoxiously loud rant about how arming teachers is crazy. I held the urge to smack him and retreated here for some common sense.


I do agree with Pavmentsurfer though, I think both parties need to give and take a little. How many Canadian household firearms are actually unavailable to the unlicensed kids and spouses? I remember trying to hide my keys from my fiancee when we were living together last year. Like that actually happens in every home. We need to accept logical change to forbid unauthorized people access to these firearms and perhaps even some enforcement.


We also need to get our handguns on our person and not locked in the basement. We need future shooters to know they are outgunned. We need logical declassification.


But the way I see it, this sh*t is way too polarized for any change to ever be realized. Especially with the Conservatives hanging us out to dry like they are.
 
AlbertaGunslinger said:
I think getting licences extended to 10 years and decriminalizing expiration will happen for sure. I also think the ATTs getting rolled into the licence will also happen. Beyond that, while I hope for more positive change, I think we will need to put significantly more pressure on the Cons to get anything more than that.
Click to expand...


This about sums up my feelings as well..

Licence extension seems like a no brainer. The prosecution of people charged for poss'ng with an expired licence is expensive and pointless. Its money that politicians can waste on their other pet projects.

And the ATT will be the step after that I think. I have now heard from more than one person closely affiliated with the CFO's office that there is a shake up on the way there. No one is ready to talk about what exactly it is, as none know for sure. But I have been told that there have been a lot of suits in and asking lots of questions and taking away lots of files Along with an audit team going over each persons duties... Make what you will out of that. To me, I forsee a budget cut in the CFO's future. And ATT's are time consuming and pointless so are an easy way to cut the budget.. just guessing though..
 
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