Chronograph?? Is it necessary
- Thread starter Mudduck
- Start date
They are fun for checking other guys loads. 7mm STW, 175 gr partitions, 2650 fps over my crony, he was pissed and did not believe. So I shot a 129 gr hornady out of a 6.5 swede, 2900 fps. He said he was really impressed with the recoil, now he knows why.
LOL, shooting an STW to get 7x57 velocities!! Pretty disappointing, to say the least.
A Chronograph really does tell the truth, whether one likes it or not.
I would not be without one, but just to clarify one point,
I have seen loads with low ES/SD's shoot lousy groups out to 300
And I have seen loads with somewhat dismal ES/SD's shoot very well out to 300.
At 1000 yard competitions, though, you better have a good shooting load with low ES/SD's!
Regards, Eagleye.
One of our very well known and respected shooters up here carried and hunted with a Rem 700 in 7mm Remimgton Magnum for years. He killed tons of game with it, his favourite load being a 160 gr Sierra ahead of __ grains of H4831 and magnum primers. One day at our old range, he sent three rounds down range over an Oehler Model 33, and was shocked to discover the velocity was less than River Rat was getting out of his 7X57 Ackley with the same bullet, about 2700 fps IIRC.
He fired three more with the same result, and declared the chronograph was wrong! It wasn't, of course, but the truth was hard to swallow. We laughed about it at the time, but later when he was able to think straight and we talked about it, it was clear that almost all the game he had shot was less than 300 yd away, and those Sierras loafing along at '57 velocities had performed just fine on big game all those years, so there was no reason to suspect they were not getting the 3000 fps he thought they were.
Ted
He fired three more with the same result, and declared the chronograph was wrong! It wasn't, of course, but the truth was hard to swallow. We laughed about it at the time, but later when he was able to think straight and we talked about it, it was clear that almost all the game he had shot was less than 300 yd away, and those Sierras loafing along at '57 velocities had performed just fine on big game all those years, so there was no reason to suspect they were not getting the 3000 fps he thought they were.
Ted
A usefull tool but not a must. As was stated the target tells the tale, if i`m happy with the groups i get i don`t care if the velocity is a little lower than what the other guy shooting gets. I got along for many years before i got a chrony, nice but i don`t use it till i`m done with load delvelopment.
With the low recoil and the good penetration it was a good rifle at that velocity. I bet his brass lasted forever. If he had killed something with it he would have credited the "STW"' it would have been real proof that a few hundred fps are really not the difference between success and going hungry. I have both 7 rem mag and 7x57. I load 175 gr bullets in them both and load them both fairly hot. 3000 and 2600 fps respectively. In hunting the game I do, the magnum is probably redundant, as I do not shoot far enough for the 400 fps to make much difference.
a couple of months ago i was at the range croneing a few new loads. there was a couple there trying to shoot a 7 mag. he was shooting huge groups. when he showed me the target they were all keyholing at 100 yrds. i asked what he was shooting. 175 barnes ttsx. he told me they were going at 2800 fps. i asked if he ever checked them over a crony. nope that was what the book said. i asked him if he wanted to check the speed. we fired three rounds and the recoil was like a pop gun. he was averageing under 2200 fps. looking at his load data he mistook the starting load to be in the 50's not in the 60 grn range. to me a crony is nessasary pece of equipment for any reloader .
I can't imagine reloading without one. Reloading without a chronograph is like doing a training run without a watch.
However, all the guys who get 500 fps more than others, do it without a chrony, so perhaps that's one advantage..................
However, all the guys who get 500 fps more than others, do it without a chrony, so perhaps that's one advantage..................
Awhile back three of us were useing Chronys, two being Betas and the last I believe a F1?. Anyway, same day, same rifles and we couldn't get the three reading closer than 200 fps fast to slow. Which one do you believe?
Even if you were to believe that the velocities were correct, 99.5% accuracy would give plus or minus 15 fps. Its a little hard to swallow that 99.5% claim from instruments that read 200 fps from each other and don't even work all the time but its a nice fantasy. Is that 30 fps ES you're seeing really zero, or is it really 60? You may as well measure COL with a tape measure.
Even if you were to believe that the velocities were correct, 99.5% accuracy would give plus or minus 15 fps. Its a little hard to swallow that 99.5% claim from instruments that read 200 fps from each other and don't even work all the time but its a nice fantasy. Is that 30 fps ES you're seeing really zero, or is it really 60? You may as well measure COL with a tape measure.
All those differences went away after a friend and i both bought 2 Oehler P-35, the 2 P-35 were installed one beside the other one and we would alternate our shooting on both and maybe once in many years the # ( including SD and ES ) did not balanced, when you get to the Oehler level they are just the perfect tool... JP.
Life got considerably better after we switched to CEDs. Still need to confirm drop charts and long range accuracy though, which brings me right back to the beginning. If you have to end up there, you can start there. Its like boots, you can measure your foot or you can try it on. Step 2 is the definitive test, step one is a fair guess if you have to order them from Cabellas.
Chronographs do have their uses. The .458 Win loads can vary from marginal to trampleing into .458 Lott territory. Its a lot easier to clock a few loads just to find out if the speed is there than soak up the recoil for nothing.
Chronographs do have their uses. The .458 Win loads can vary from marginal to trampleing into .458 Lott territory. Its a lot easier to clock a few loads just to find out if the speed is there than soak up the recoil for nothing.
What i am saying is when i was doing load development especially for my 308 Nemesis, after shooting over the Oehler, i could tell by the # if a certain load had the potential to be a .4 MOA at 300 metres, would not get caught without my P-35... JP.
Mystic Precision
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Summerland, BC
BINGO - All the reasons to use a chronie mentioned are wonderful BUT the device has to actually do its job. Chronies are all over the map for performance. Even the same unit will vary output wildly given ambient light and cold. So I use mine but don't always take the velocities to be literal.
ES/SD - forget it. The error on a good one is larger then what we are trying to measure. I trust holes in paper and when my groups at 300 and 500m have under 1/4 min elevation, load tuning is good.
I sell CED's NOT chronies. I just haven't gotten around to getting a CED for myself - maybe this Christmas.
The drop chart varies what I expect for speeds AND I always verify my drop tables in real world shooting.
Devices like the Oehler work.... They are pricey and no longer manf BUT they might be found. This I would consider doing load testing with. CED many have really liked it.
We are trying to measure to a very high rate of precision. Using a tape measure when a pair of calipers is needed just doesn't make any sense.
Jerry
To what others have said, my added $0.02 would be that if you do buy a chronograph, you will not regret doing so.
Check out the CED line:
ht tp://www.cedhk.com/shop/categories/Shooting-Electronics/CED-Chronographs-%26-Accessories/
These are a little better than the Chrony for a little more $. I have one and love it. The extra features soon become something you'd not want to do without and if you put a bullet through a screen it will only be a $25 screen you hit and not the expensive electronics. With a Chrony you won't set up 100m down range to calculate your own BC's for instance; too much at risk. With the Millennium line you may decide to give things like this a try,, or not. Point is, you can. The Infrared lighting for the screens is not just window dressing either. It makes a difference and is worth having. Anyhow, its an option for you to consider. Enjoy your shopping.
I use a Chrony to evaluate my reloading. If I take ten rounds out of the reloading block and the average deviation is 10 fps difference then I am very happy and I know my reloading technique is consistant. I use 25fps as a maximum deviation. I then work towards developing a load for my rifle and tweak until my velocities are where I want them and then concentrate on seating depths and check of accuracy. Once the load is developed then it is easy for me to duplicate.
Without the Chrony, its nothing but a wild ass guess, hit or miss.
Without the Chrony, its nothing but a wild ass guess, hit or miss.
John Wesley Hardin
CGN Regular
- Location
- 45.457 x - 77.239
You can never have enough toys; its also necessary to analyze everything to death;If you can afford one ,why not?
If you have a few load books and know how to use them and can read pressure signs on your brass, and your printing on the target where you want to be I'd be satisfied; I personally don't think it matters if my bullet hits there at 2200 or 2250 fps. I kinda doubt any game I harvested really cared either.
That said I got one now but did without for many years.
Wes
If you have a few load books and know how to use them and can read pressure signs on your brass, and your printing on the target where you want to be I'd be satisfied; I personally don't think it matters if my bullet hits there at 2200 or 2250 fps. I kinda doubt any game I harvested really cared either.
That said I got one now but did without for many years.
Wes
