Practical antique for wilderness defense?

[WebleyWielder]

I recommend a Webley.

They are .45 Acp and pack a REAL good punch.
If you want too know where to get them, Search up 'dingus' and he sells some webleys.
Webleys are cheap too shoot, But not to buy..
They are over 1200 Dollars normally, BUT, If you ever don't want it, There's always a market, And down the road it'd be worth more money seeing how old it is, and then you could make your money back, PLUS EXTRA!
I myself have a webley, And I think you'd like one. It would kill a cougar from 20 yards.

I would take this into consideration, And, Google 'Webley Mark I' There's up too five marks. Make sure you get one that's pre 1898!
Because then it's considered antique and then you could take it out whenever you go hunting for Elk.

--
Best luck!

 

[antiqueguy]

I recommend a Webley.

They are .45 Acp and pack a REAL good punch.
If you want too know where to get them, Search up 'dingus' and he sells some webleys.
Webleys are cheap too shoot, But not to buy..
They are over 1200 Dollars normally, BUT, If you ever don't want it, There's always a market, And down the road it'd be worth more money seeing how old it is, and then you could make your money back, PLUS EXTRA!
I myself have a webley, And I think you'd like one. It would kill a cougar from 20 yards.

I would take this into consideration, And, Google 'Webley Mark I' There's up too five marks. Make sure you get one that's pre 1898!
Because then it's considered antique and then you could take it out whenever you go hunting for Elk.

--
Best luck!

it will not pack a punch you have to use light handload in the antique webleys the .45 acp factory ammo is way over the proof load for the last MK of .455 webleys not safe to shoot in any antique webley

 

[H Wally]

it will not pack a punch you have to use light handload in the antique webleys the .45 acp factory ammo is way over the proof load for the last MK of .455 webleys not safe to shoot in any antique webley

This. Whether or not Mr XYZ says he has shot full pressure 45acp through his particular webley is irrelevant, because they aren't built to handle it and I have come across parts gun that digested several boxes of regular pressure 45acp before stretching so out of time that they barely functioned.


Get a short 12 gauge or a ranch hand. The ranch hands will run you roughly half the price of even the least expensive functional gun you'll be looking at, and will work far better for your purposes. I've started taking my ranch hand with me when I'm just going for a wander, even hunting in close woods. With a regular butt stock it's still incredibly short, light and handy.

 

[scianna54]

I disagree, it's not the load, it is the jacketed bullets which are the problem - BUT for your intended purpose better go with a short barrel (not cut off) shotgun. AND, follow all hunting regulations.

 

[antiqueguy]

I disagree, it's not the load, it is the jacketed bullets which are the problem - BUT for your intended purpose better go with a short barrel (not cut off) shotgun. AND, follow all hunting regulations.

it is the load the pressure is too much

a ranch hand is a better option btw or a DA outlaw or norinco jw2000 with 12" barrels and slugs

 

[cory moffat]

Most of the time you just need an attitude changer.


http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php?534839-Handguns-against-bears&highlight=.455

 

[dingus]

Well copper jacketed bullets do up the presure so there a bad idea in antiques theres no argueing that fact.

If you would rather have a antique handgun than stand there waveing your dink in the air then a soilid frame antique like a RIC or a SAA colt or Remington are all good choices if you want a stronger gun.
I would rather have my remington 1875 that shoots lead bullets close to 900 FPS than my #### in my hand LOL

Yes a modern Shot gun is much better for power but guess what you do with a shotgun you wont do with a handgun? you lean it against a tree or put it down and murphys law will always kick in.
Also when on horse back if you get tossed on your ass when a bear or cougar scares your horse you will have the handgun on your belt. that is better than nothing i carry a 8 inch bowie as well.
A good Sharp kinfe has saved many a man in a bad situation.
Mine are razor sharp with 8 inch blades.
Theres lots of antique handguns that are alot better than people think tho.
Plenty of bear were hunted and killed with old Cap and ball 44 Remington in the 1860s and up, guys would sit in a tree over a bait and the bear would come to get the bait and Pop right thru the back top of the Skull or spine shot. theres guys in the USA still do theses kind of things.
id not want to shoot a bear with "any" handgun but if one was chewing on me and i could get the barrel pointed at his head or in his mouth its all over Rover, for him at that range unless he has a steel plate in his skull. theres lotsa places to get him where the skull is not thick to.

If you can get a handgun that can spit out a 45 Keith type SWC or 44 SWC at 800 Fps then you can do some damage if something jumps on you.
Id rather have a shotgun with slugs like my 870 to and do carry it but i also have a remy 1875 on my belt and or my orignal schofield which handles 800 FPS special smokeless loads i also carry it from time to time.
that said the soilid frame guns are stronger than the break action guns but slower to reload.
Its all in how you load the ammo keeping the presure curve down.
Webleys are great guns very strong and fast to reload the upgraded ones ** even better.

There all still better than no back up to your shotgun at all. If nothing else than to make you feel better around camp and on the trail.
If you study the penatration tests done by elmer keith on a 45 SCW lead bullet with a 35 gr or 40 gr charge of Black powder you will be surprised. Gel tests were even more surpriseing. useing 2400 smokeless worked great in alot of the old soild frame stronger guns to as its presure curve is alot like BP.
Anyone serious and wanting to learn about antique Handguns and there capability should buy and read "Six Guns" by elmer keith.
Great book. Its the most common advise i give to new comers getting into the antique gun thing.
Thats getting advise or learning from someone whos been there done that not internet chatter.

 

[Avalonthas]

Small package shotgun from Canada ammo in 12GA and a heavy load and your good to go

 

[bross]

My bear / backpack gun is a $50 Cooey 12 gauge shortened to 19", with a modified synthetic pistol grip buttstock. Whole thing cost $80, launches flares as well as slug, and goes from taken down to fire-able in 10 seconds. If you must have an antique, get a sporterized .577 Snyder - about $250 if you look. Both will actually stop critters rather than annoy them.

 

[antiqueguy]

Well copper jacketed bullets do up the presure so there a bad idea in antiques theres no argueing that fact.

If you would rather have a antique handgun than stand there waveing your dink in the air then a soilid frame antique like a RIC or a SAA colt or Remington are all good choices if you want a stronger gun.
I would rather have my remington 1875 that shoots lead bullets close to 900 FPS than my #### in my hand LOL

Yes a modern Shot gun is much better for power but guess what you do with a shotgun you wont do with a handgun? you lean it against a tree or put it down and murphys law will always kick in.
Also when on horse back if you get tossed on your ass when a bear or cougar scares your horse you will have the handgun on your belt. that is better than nothing i carry a 8 inch bowie as well.
A good Sharp kinfe has saved many a man in a bad situation.
Mine are razor sharp with 8 inch blades.
Theres lots of antique handguns that are alot better than people think tho.
Plenty of bear were hunted and killed with old Cap and ball 44 Remington in the 1860s and up, guys would sit in a tree over a bait and the bear would come to get the bait and Pop right thru the back top of the Skull or spine shot. theres guys in the USA still do theses kind of things.

there is a difference in hunting and defense. hunting is like a ambush you sit and wait for the pray to come to you and you can get a perfict shot. while defense is up close and nasty your hart rate jumps a as a animal bigger then you is charging at you drawing a pistol and hitting your target is not easy a shotgun is more stable

me like i said before id reather have atleast a double 12ga with hard cast .690 round balls my fav gun though when i mite come in contact with a big rogue black bear is my sks 5rd of x39 and bayo just in case

 

[dingus]

there is a difference in hunting and defense. hunting is like a ambush you sit and wait for the pray to come to you and you can get a perfict shot. while defense is up close and nasty your hart rate jumps a as a animal bigger then you is charging at you drawing a pistol and hitting your target is not easy a shotgun is more stable

me like i said before id reather have atleast a double 12ga with hard cast .690 round balls my fav gun though when i mite come in contact with a big rogue black bear is my sks 5rd of x39 and bayo just in case

My 44 Cap and ball comment was only to show its been done with a antique revolver.
I agreed a 12 ga would be best to but i like that back up of a good Antique shooting SWC .
Why not.
if its legal for me to have one im gona have it.
If i could have a 44 magnum modern gun like that or 500 S&W id have that instead but thats a big paperwork hassel.
If your being attacked good chance there will be some up close and personal contact so my plan is to make sure i have a few rounds left in my cylinder for the warm and fuzzy contact LOL.

So many bear attacks we here about the guy is down huddled helpless getting Bitten mauled id like to see a bear or any critter take even a reloaded 45 acp round in the mouth or ear hole up close and still want more.
Up close its a dead bear if the shot is good.

Dont know about you but id still want to be able to poke a barrel in the mouth and blast one off if i could rather than be pinned down while a black bear sits on me and peels the flesh off my arms as they have done to others in recorded attacks.

 

[antiqueguy]

My 44 Cap and ball comment was only to show its been done with a antique revolver.
I agreed a 12 ga would be best to but i like that back up of a good Antique shooting SWC .
Why not.
if its legal for me to have one im gona have it.
If i could have a 44 magnum modern gun like that or 500 S&W id have that instead but thats a big paperwork hassel.
If your being attacked good chance there will be some up close and personal contact so my plan is to make sure i have a few rounds left in my cylinder for the warm and fuzzy contact LOL.

So many bear attacks we here about the guy is down huddled helpless getting Bitten mauled id like to see a bear or any critter take even a reloaded 45 acp round in the mouth or ear hole up close and still want more.
Up close its a dead bear if the shot is good.

Dont know about you but id still want to be able to poke a barrel in the mouth and blast one off if i could rather than be pinned down while a black bear sits on me and peels the flesh off my arms as they have done to others in recorded attacks.

most of the time if you act dead a griz will leave you alone do that with a black bear and you will be mauled just out of curiosity(black bears are scavengers)

if anything that mite eat me comes close (15 yards) there will be a gun pointed there way but any gun is better then no gun ive read some where that a women that was in a car out in the brush camping had a bear stick its head in the window she shot it with a .22 short revolver and droped it.

 

[dingus]

most of the time if you act dead a griz will leave you alone do that with a black bear and you will be mauled just out of curiosity(black bears are scavengers)

if anything that mite eat me comes close (15 yards) there will be a gun pointed there way but any gun is better then no gun ive read some where that a women that was in a car out in the brush camping had a bear stick its head in the window she shot it with a .22 short revolver and droped it.

Black bears there far from just scavengers they eat humans when they can.
Black bears enjoy eating human flesh and dont care if your not dead when they start. they dont just maul you they maul then start eating you in alot of cases, thats why with Black you fight for all your worth.

As far just laying there hopeing they go away well that aint gona happen in my case
Im not really in Griz country when im out in the bush here but might end up there in my boat this spring.
As long as they dont try and climb in my boat we will get along fine ......
This is cougar country and black bear on the island.

 

[Brutus]

One of the worst bear attacks was a black bear near Algonquin Park in Ontario. Three teenage boys ambushed while fishing on a stream. At least one was partially eaten when the search team found them. A poor wild berry crop was partially to blame for the straving bears attack IIRC. It's a rare event for this kind of predation from a black bear, but you never can say with 110% assurance what may or may not happen in the wild.

just saying.......

 

[werewolf]

While I've never been actually attacked by a bear, I've been stalked by a Grizzly years ago and had a cat following me last fall. I'll take my chances with my "wimpy" just going to piss em off, Colt SAA. On another similar note, I remember talking to one old timer who was telling me about having a blackie goose him while he was squatting down , with his rifle resting against a tree...Just out of grabbing distance. He said if he wasn't already tinng, well you get the picture. Anyway, the bear scared him, he yelled, the bear took off. Could have ended very badly for him if it didn't.

 

[twosteam]

When I was young and staying at my fathers lodge in the Yukon I carried an old .44 cap and ball. Dad instructed me to shoot it into the air overhead. He said the carnivores thereabouts still knew what the sound was and so were bound to avoid me- and dad might hear and be "a-comin". It did scare off one bear and a couple coyotes in my travels, but mostly it made me feel like a big girl- "all growed up like ". (Heavy blasted thing- but it made me feel safe) We did shoot a bear with it- point blank range from the kitchen as it was coming thru the Kitchen window. (Aunt Willa yelled and jumped around allot)
Janice.

 

[drm3m]

I can't suggest a black powder handgun other than the Howdah pistol....two barrels .65 cal...I think.

I think a .50-70 would discourage this type of creature.

The 58 Remington would give you six .44 cal rounds....but the Howdah looks like a hand cannon.
None of this stuff is inexpensive as an original blackpowder solution to your question.

David

 

[antiqueguy]

I can't suggest a black powder handgun other than the Howdah pistol....two barrels .65 cal...I think.

I think a .50-70 would discourage this type of creature.

The 58 Remington would give you six .44 cal rounds....but the Howdah looks like a hand cannon.
None of this stuff is inexpensive as an original blackpowder solution to your question.

David

the top one comes in 20ga .58 cal or .50 cal its a modern gun finding a antique howdah in cartridge or muzzleloading form is next to impossable

finding a antique remington 1858 in shootable shape would cost way too much and they also should not be loaded like a modern repro

 

[drm3m]

Part of the original question.

‘The Idea of some easy to carry protection for the unwanted encounter is appealing, however, is it really practical?’

In blackpowder?.....I don’t think that this is the greatest idea.

IMHO, I would think a reliable backup modern firearm would be a good idea.
And I love the old stuff.

One shot or two?

antiqueguy as you suggested.....I think that original Howdahs are very hard to find and very costly when found.
The one below looks like a nice one. (Not mine.)

In a pinch...I would prefer it to the pistol shown below.....similar calibre. (Mine.)

David

 

[Brutus]

Yes, it's a rare beast. That is a BP firearm that one would have confidence for this serious task.