Hello folks I'm just getting into the long range game and I'm looking at a couple of rifles from ATR one comes in 338 lapua and the other you guessed it 300 rum. I know the 338 is fairly expensive to shoot but I reload so that will save me a few bucks. So what I'm asking is which caliber is more user friendly and better for the task if I start to compete in your opinions.
338 lapua or 300 RUM
- Thread starter thumper1
- Start date
300RUM isnt cheaper than 338 LM. and compete in?
they both are fun to shoot but all depends on what you want to get in to i guess. go buy whatever you feel like shooting and enjoy!
340 Weatherby Mag also performs almost like lapua and all are fun to shoot.
Since i Own all 3 calibers, I prefer 340 custom built these days but any rifles are fun to plink. I find 300 RUM are kind of picky on its loading date (On my barrel) and 338 was just 338 Lapua. cant go wrong with that caliber and its proven by many long range shooters and it sure is accurate!
would you be building it from start or thinking of buying factory rifle?
they both are fun to shoot but all depends on what you want to get in to i guess. go buy whatever you feel like shooting and enjoy!
340 Weatherby Mag also performs almost like lapua and all are fun to shoot.
Since i Own all 3 calibers, I prefer 340 custom built these days but any rifles are fun to plink. I find 300 RUM are kind of picky on its loading date (On my barrel) and 338 was just 338 Lapua. cant go wrong with that caliber and its proven by many long range shooters and it sure is accurate!
would you be building it from start or thinking of buying factory rifle?
- Location
- Halifax, NS
I don't think either would be 'user friendly'. In terms of overbore-ness; the 300 RUM is 2.3 grains per square millimeter and the .338 Lapua is 2.0 (.308 is 1.0). Because the 300 RUM is more overbore, I'm going to say that it is less user friendly, but I've never owned either.
If you're buying something from ATRS, you may as well get exactly what you want (unless you can get a deal on the rifles they have already built). Most people here will tell you 300 RUM or .338 LM are too big for starters like yourself. I'm one of those people.
By the time you learn from your mistakes and get good at shooting at long range, you'll have wasted alot of money on reloads and your bore might be half cooked. At only 75 cents a reload, I'm glad I started with .223 lol!
Also food for thought: the .338 LM is not allowed in F class competition. The 300 RUM is.
If I were you, I'd buy something a little cheaper. The 7mm offerings are still very good beyond 1000 yards and wouldn't be so overkill if you wanted to hunt with the rifle. If you're set on either of these two rifles, I'd say the 300 RUM will be flatter shooting at short range but the .338 LM will be a better choice for longer range ballistics and wind (1.5km plus).
Either way, have fun!
If you're buying something from ATRS, you may as well get exactly what you want (unless you can get a deal on the rifles they have already built). Most people here will tell you 300 RUM or .338 LM are too big for starters like yourself. I'm one of those people.
By the time you learn from your mistakes and get good at shooting at long range, you'll have wasted alot of money on reloads and your bore might be half cooked. At only 75 cents a reload, I'm glad I started with .223 lol!
Also food for thought: the .338 LM is not allowed in F class competition. The 300 RUM is.
If I were you, I'd buy something a little cheaper. The 7mm offerings are still very good beyond 1000 yards and wouldn't be so overkill if you wanted to hunt with the rifle. If you're set on either of these two rifles, I'd say the 300 RUM will be flatter shooting at short range but the .338 LM will be a better choice for longer range ballistics and wind (1.5km plus).
Either way, have fun!
I would take a hard look at a big 7mm mag, Berger is about to release the 195 VLD it has a G1 BC of about 850 ... so there saying. Other than that id go 338 edge or lapua no contest. The big BC's of the 7mm and the 338's all but put the 30 cals off the radar for me these days.
Gonna call my self right out for being a complete Hypocrite ... one of my all time favorite cartridges is the 300wsm lol, right next to the 7rem.
But serious, Designated long range ... Big 7 or 338, balistically the 30's are inferior
paperslayer
Regular
- Location
- Chilliwack
Your choices are only big, but not necessarily "best' for long range. There is the misconception that a round has to be big and heavy to shoot long range. In fact, it has to be big to shoot heavy, but you don't need heavy to shoot accurately at long distance, you need long.
Many 1000 yard records have fallen to 6mm bullets. For a long time, 6.5 cartridges dominated F-Class and now it is the 7mm bullets. Why? Because to make a bullet perform well at long range it needs to be shaped right and quite long. For a given caliber, this means that the wider the bullet, the longer and consequently, the MUCH heavier they need to be. By the time you get up to 30 caliber, you need to be looking at 220+grain bullets, and in 338 you are into 300 grains. That takes a huge powerful cartridge to make them work. That requires lots of powder, and expensive bullets.
You can achieveequal and even superior performance from smaller calibers, and about the best balance right now has to be the ol' 284 Winchester. With the much rumoured 195 grain bullets, it may not be enough, so a short magnum may be the ticket. the recoil will be far less than a RUM or LapMag, and because you cannot compete with muzzle brakes, if you decided to dabble in long range competition, the smaller calibers will give you accuracy, manageable recoil and versatility.
I completely "get" wanting a heavy hitter and there aren't very many gun nutz that haven't got at least one they pull out and dust off every now and then. Me included, but if you want to get the best bang for your buck, I'd look at a 260 AI, or a 284 Winchester. Both with perfomr better than the shooter by a huge margin.
Many 1000 yard records have fallen to 6mm bullets. For a long time, 6.5 cartridges dominated F-Class and now it is the 7mm bullets. Why? Because to make a bullet perform well at long range it needs to be shaped right and quite long. For a given caliber, this means that the wider the bullet, the longer and consequently, the MUCH heavier they need to be. By the time you get up to 30 caliber, you need to be looking at 220+grain bullets, and in 338 you are into 300 grains. That takes a huge powerful cartridge to make them work. That requires lots of powder, and expensive bullets.
You can achieveequal and even superior performance from smaller calibers, and about the best balance right now has to be the ol' 284 Winchester. With the much rumoured 195 grain bullets, it may not be enough, so a short magnum may be the ticket. the recoil will be far less than a RUM or LapMag, and because you cannot compete with muzzle brakes, if you decided to dabble in long range competition, the smaller calibers will give you accuracy, manageable recoil and versatility.
I completely "get" wanting a heavy hitter and there aren't very many gun nutz that haven't got at least one they pull out and dust off every now and then. Me included, but if you want to get the best bang for your buck, I'd look at a 260 AI, or a 284 Winchester. Both with perfomr better than the shooter by a huge margin.
Jordan Smith
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Calgary, AB
Funny, I was just comparing the external ballistics of the 195 Hybrid at 2850fps from a 7RM or WSM (QL says I can get there without too much trouble) to a 300gr MK from a .338LM fired at 2800fps, out to 1 mile. The 7RM drifts less in the wind at 1760, and arrives with more velocity. The energy figures, while purely academic, are 730 ft-lbs with the 195, and 930 with the 300gr MK bullet. Not a huge difference between the two, despite the .338LM starting out with a lot more grunt at both ends of the rifle.
I would honestly grab something like a Krieger, Rock, Smith, or Gaillard in 7WSM or 7RM in 8 or 8.5" twist, throated for the 180gr Hybrid or 190gr Matrix VLD (the closest things we have to the 195 right now), and rock on in preparation for the new 195. The 0.794 G1 or 0.406 G7 BC of that 195gr 7mm Hybrid is tough to trump, even by a .300RUM pushing the 230gr Berger Hybrid at 3100fps, or the .338LM pushing a 300gr MK or Lapua Scenar bullet at 2800-2850fps...
I would honestly grab something like a Krieger, Rock, Smith, or Gaillard in 7WSM or 7RM in 8 or 8.5" twist, throated for the 180gr Hybrid or 190gr Matrix VLD (the closest things we have to the 195 right now), and rock on in preparation for the new 195. The 0.794 G1 or 0.406 G7 BC of that 195gr 7mm Hybrid is tough to trump, even by a .300RUM pushing the 230gr Berger Hybrid at 3100fps, or the .338LM pushing a 300gr MK or Lapua Scenar bullet at 2800-2850fps...
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308 will do perfectly fine with what you want to do and that much cheaper to shoot. barrel life will be way more than those 300 or 338.
my 300RUM will maybe push 800-1000 rounds to the barrel before replacing and 308 will be thousands of shot.
another caliber to consider if you have a budger in mind. if you dont, just buy whatever you want and go have fun!
my 300RUM will maybe push 800-1000 rounds to the barrel before replacing and 308 will be thousands of shot.
another caliber to consider if you have a budger in mind. if you dont, just buy whatever you want and go have fun!
I was looking at a custom 300 they have forsale or a rem MLR that they tweaked a little bit but after reading some of these posts I may have to rethink my purchase lol but it'll still be from ATR's 
I was looking at a custom 300 they have forsale or a rem MLR that they tweaked a little bit but after reading some of these posts I may have to rethink my purchase lol but it'll still be from ATR's
don't get me wrong, they are awesome calibers to play with and i will burn the barrel faster because ATM i am shooting 225 hybrid @ around 3300FPS with 30" barrel.
many shooters will stay around 3000-3100 but mine just did not group at that speed. To replace a barrel is only around $500 + threading so you still get to enjoy for awhile before any replacement and depending on your reloads, it might even shoot more than 1000 rounds or way more.
I find 338LM do have longer barrel life and many more parts or detachable mags to stocks. Almost no one will make anything that will fit 300RUM and you will have to mod it from 338LM stock and mags.
Being said that, it is very easy to mod a 338LM mag to fir 300RUM caliber. if you need some more information about 300EUM you can pm me and i can give you some detailed info about what i used or how to mod few AI stocks and Choate customs to fit.
Hope you find a right one for ya!
The .338 Lapua is a fun calibre to shoot, especially when you start going past 1000m. Having said that I would like to compare the .338 Lapua to anything one can overindulge in (steak, beer, tacos...), sometimes it can be too much of a good thing. The .338 Lapua is something that is difficult to take to the range day in and day out and shoot 50 rounds a day.
When you get into the 6mm, 6.5mm and 7mm classes of bullets, they can all be very accurate and easy to shoot out to 1000m in various calibres. As an introductory rifle to long range shooting I would recommend something in a 6.5mm or 7mm that you can get 2900fps and enjoy and learn. It really is a lot of fun. Best of luck.
Ivo
When you get into the 6mm, 6.5mm and 7mm classes of bullets, they can all be very accurate and easy to shoot out to 1000m in various calibres. As an introductory rifle to long range shooting I would recommend something in a 6.5mm or 7mm that you can get 2900fps and enjoy and learn. It really is a lot of fun. Best of luck.
Ivo
I ran some of these numbers awhile ago jordan ... 195 7mm / 338 lapua and was also quite suprised at the comparison. Didnt post it because i didnt write down the exsact numbers and didnt feal like getting called out because i hadnt dug them back up. But ya bang for the buck the new 195 is gonna be pretty damn hard to beat.
My buddy is running a 7mm rem mag with the 180 VLD on a 1-9 progressive twist. Hes getting 3100fps and Ive seen targets he shot that were 5 shots 2.5 inches at 600 yards. I cannot peronally get more than 2750fps with that kind of acurracy with a 180 VLD on my 1-9, so i was pretty shocked. I believe its soley because of the progressive twist. I forget what make the barrel is.
Point is we were starting to chat and thinking a guy could easily get 2900fps out of a 7rem with a 195VLD with the progressive twist. With the BC of .794 its gonna hit at 1000 yards still going 1800fps with 1400ftlb with possibly extreme accuracy ?... These numbers are staggering for a 7rem.
cram that round into an 7 STW and possibly run it at 3100 ... 1957fps and 1650ftlb at 1000 yards
The STW turns the 7mm into a 1500 yard cartridge no problem, it wont go sub sonic until 1600 yards depending on air density.
I never would have imagined ! Cannot wait to see this bullet hit the public ranges !
paperslayer
Regular
- Location
- Chilliwack
A point so often overlooked with secant ogive (VLD) bullets. 284 will easily get this bullet up to 2900, but getting it there accurately is another story. The hybrids are easier to get working at higher velocities.
FWIW, Lester Bruno did lots of comparative testing with of with the help John Krieger on the merits of gain twisting. Their research showed no advantage to dramatic advantage to gain twists. They did discover that in short range benchrest, a very small amount of gain (less than 1" twist") did produce favorable results using flat based 6mm bullets, but again, it was a very small amount of twist change.
I have a 284 that shoots 180 VLD's in pretty little .3 moa groups over 50 grains of 4831SC running at 2840 fps from a 30" barrel with an 8.5 twist The STW will get them well over 3000 but with stupid barrel life. I think you're barking up the wrong tree with gain twists, and I think trying hybrids should change the accurate velocity node you are getting. Nothing wrong with 2750 at all...its just every barrel is different
Mystic Precision
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Summerland, BC
There are some that have shot with me that have posted here so know I have "been there, done that".
If competing is the goal, neither will work. If this involves putting a big hurt on fur way out there, bigger is better.
For LR plinking, consider that many high BC bullets do not going all that fast. Most everything has an accurate node 2900 to 3000fps. Many will shoot like crap above that.
An extra 200fps at the muzzle, equates to 100yds of "flatter trajectory" way out there. You cannot go fast enough to avoid gravity. Let the bullet do its thing and bring LOTS of elevation. The furthest I could shoot my 6.5 Mystic and 140gr Berger VLD's was 2350yds - it simply got way too hard to gain anymore elevation. Muzzle velocity is 2900fps.
Some bullets will go subsonic without fuss, these you can shoot to the horizon. There is only 1 way to find out. Or just rely on the experiences of others.
The longer the bullet the fussier it is to tune. A 9 twist slug that "does" trumps a 6.5 twist barrel slug that "can't". There is a point of diminishing returns and that happens after 8 twist. The 223/90 is about as fussy as I want to live with an 1550yds is no problem at all with these bullets.
Big cals and bullets aren't as easy to tune as smaller cases and bore. I think a moderate case 7mm or 30cal is about as good as it gets for this type of fun.
Good luck with your project.
Jerry
If competing is the goal, neither will work. If this involves putting a big hurt on fur way out there, bigger is better.
For LR plinking, consider that many high BC bullets do not going all that fast. Most everything has an accurate node 2900 to 3000fps. Many will shoot like crap above that.
An extra 200fps at the muzzle, equates to 100yds of "flatter trajectory" way out there. You cannot go fast enough to avoid gravity. Let the bullet do its thing and bring LOTS of elevation. The furthest I could shoot my 6.5 Mystic and 140gr Berger VLD's was 2350yds - it simply got way too hard to gain anymore elevation. Muzzle velocity is 2900fps.
Some bullets will go subsonic without fuss, these you can shoot to the horizon. There is only 1 way to find out. Or just rely on the experiences of others.
The longer the bullet the fussier it is to tune. A 9 twist slug that "does" trumps a 6.5 twist barrel slug that "can't". There is a point of diminishing returns and that happens after 8 twist. The 223/90 is about as fussy as I want to live with an 1550yds is no problem at all with these bullets.
Big cals and bullets aren't as easy to tune as smaller cases and bore. I think a moderate case 7mm or 30cal is about as good as it gets for this type of fun.
Good luck with your project.
Jerry
I find this post extremley informative. Your getting a 180 over 50gr of powder going 2850 ? I cannot tell how much i would love to maintain my acurracy with a smaller cartridge and increase my fps. I can get my 7 Rem to shoot Moa with a 180 vld at 2850 but moa is not good enough for me. iM running a 27inch hart, 30 inches is to long for me i thing i would lose 150fps if i used the same cartridge / load and went to a 27inch ?
IVe bin thinking of stepping up to a little bigger 7 when the 195 vld comes out. But after reading Jerry's post i might stick with my 7rem.
Mystic Precision
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Summerland, BC
If you are only getting 2850fps from a 7RM, I would consider changing the powder you are using. 3000fps is pretty straightforward with todays powders.
What are you burning?
Jerry
What are you burning?
Jerry
This is off topic but how much more does it cost to shoot a 338 lapua compared to a 7 rm....I'm thinking about 15 cents more per round for powder and 20 cents more per round for bullets....not really a huge difference. 350.00 more for each 1000 rounds shot.
Don't know how true it is but I've read that the 7RM barrel is good for 1000 rounds and the 338 LM is good for 5000 rounds. So if cost to rebarrel is say 600.00 then the 338LM is actually 250.00 less per each 1000 rounds shot. Mind you, if you include the difference in brass cost then they come out fairly close.
Don't know how true it is but I've read that the 7RM barrel is good for 1000 rounds and the 338 LM is good for 5000 rounds. So if cost to rebarrel is say 600.00 then the 338LM is actually 250.00 less per each 1000 rounds shot. Mind you, if you include the difference in brass cost then they come out fairly close.
Not sure where you got barrel life of 1000 rounds for a 7mm rm and 5000 for a 338 Lapua but that is way way off. When I changed my last 7mm barrel it had over 2500 rounds and still was under moa but 1500 is probably a realistic number. I think it may be roughly the same or a little less for the 338 lapua.
Also your calcualted cost of reloading is off. It is at least 50 cents a shot more for the 338 Lapua( not counting brass which is close to 4 times more for 338 Lapua brass).
