Quite surprised with max load!

hometownhero said:
I do that most of the time. Works out well for me so far and saves on components as well as time
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In this case he is reloading 22 cal bullets that cost about 23c each. It seems pointless to try and save components when they are so cheap at the risk of......... Even when I do find a good load for my 223 I will go out and buy another bullet or powder and go at it again. It seems the whole point for me is to waste components and time. If I'm loading for a gun with open sites I will load only one or two rounds for the starting/lower end loads and work up from there especially if they are large calibre and expensive bullets.

To each there own. G
 
My previous 280 Remington load was 58.5 grains of IMR7828 with 160 grain Speer Mag Tips.
Changing to IMR7828SSC, and I backed of to 56.5 grains. The two bullets loaded at 56.5 sounded rather anemic.
The Speer manual lists their loads from 48 - 52 grains. Starting at 48 and working up in 1/2 grain increments would have taken considerable time.
Backing off two grains from the previously tried load is 4%. Is that enough? Some backing off is always wise when changing powder lots.
Most books suggest changing from regular powders to SC and SSC, you can use the same charge weights.
To err on the side of safety is wise. What works for one may not work for another. One load does not fit all.
 
Watching people press the self destruct button on their guns is always amusing.

Even more so when they look at you in disbelief and ask: "What happened??!!"
 
I have owned several good, high quality modern rifles that would not safely accept a published "max" load. It's you fingers and eyes and life, but starting at some published "max" load and trusting their lawyers advice is not something I'd do.
 
I once drove across a major highway in England, looking the wrong way.

The fact that I got away with something once suggests that I should quit while ahead - not make it standard practice.

I saw a 6.5 Swede that was way over-pressured with a legitimate START load. I Max might have taken it apart.
 
Maximum loads would be safe in modern standard rifles if all components were standard/specified and if the propellant burning rate did not vary from lot to lot!
This is true for many powders but some of the best and most popular powders have a burning which varies very much from lot to lot.
Also, I a modern, well designed firearm will often withstand dangerous pressure levels (70,000+ PSI) without failing most of the time.

I've seen 3 blown rifles in the last 2 years, all of them with reloaded ammo but have never seen single rifle fail with factory ammo in more than 30 years.

Alex
 
It should also be noted that a number of P.O. Ackley's and Warren Page's recommended loads were in fact way over safe working pressures when later tested on modern testing equipment. Loading a cartridge up to the point the bolt freezes and then backing down one grain was pretty well standard practice for a lot of early re-loaders.

The same is true of the new reloading manuals. A lot of listed loads developed the same way the home hand-loader do it - by looking for visible signs of pressure - have been found to be actually over design pressure when tested in pressure barrels. By the same token there are a few loads - mainly ball powders - that have seen an increase in maximum charge weights over the years again thanks to proper testing equipment.
 
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I tend to work up on all my rifles, but I have to admit I have loaded for 6 or 7 30-06 rifles and I just tend to start with a max load that has always worked out.
 
darcy32171 said:
Forget what topic it was on here, some older fellow reloader said: "back in the day, they always shot max load". Since the books are governed by lawyers to protect their arse`s, I went with the max load. Man, did it shoot well!!!!
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Say just for conversations sake you used this advice and the gun blew up in your face would you be praising or sueing said "older fellow reloader" ? Contrary to what you may think old doesn't necessarily mean wise.
 
'Boo said:
It should also be noted that a number of P.O. Ackley's and Warren Page's recommended loads were in fact way over safe working pressures when later tested on modern testing equipment. Loading a cartridge up to the point the bolt freezes and then backing down one grain was pretty well standard practice for a lot of early re-loaders.

The same is true of the new reloading manuals. A lot of listed loads developed the same way the home hand-loader do it - by looking for visible signs of pressure - have been found to be actually over design pressure when tested in pressure barrels. By the same token there are a few loads - mainly ball powders - that have seen an increase in maximum charge weights over the years again thanks to proper testing equipment.
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Reading Bob Hagel's book, and his loads should be approached from 10% south of where he is at. Talk about loading to the nuts and driving full bore . . .
 
i have seen load data in some books that have the same charge weight for start/max loads. in a case like that i was told to reduce by 10% and work back up.starting at max load is just plain dumb.
 
You must also remember that an over pressure load in a firearm can do damage that can not be seen, and it is cumulative. One too many over max pressure loads fired in a rifle, can and will turn it into a hand held grenade. The metal IS stressed and changed when exposed to too much pressure, and that can happen without frozen bolts or loose primer pockets.... Food for thought....
 
There was a good write-up in "Handloader" magazine a couple of years ago. They ran a number of loads through a rifle fitted with strain-gauges. By the time the "typical" "over-pressure" signs were showing on the cases pressures were sometimes as high as 10,000 psi over max. Fire enough 75,000 psi loads and something will let loose eventually. Sometime the changes are subtle like growing head-space while other-times they are dramatic with catastrophic failure.

The same article also compared pressures mixing case and primer brands. The results were eye-opening to say the least.
 
'Boo said:
There was a good write-up in "Handloader" magazine a couple of years ago. They ran a number of loads through a rifle fitted with strain-gauges. By the time the "typical" "over-pressure" signs were showing on the cases pressures were sometimes as high as 10,000 psi over max. Fire enough 75,000 psi loads and something will let loose eventually. Sometime the changes are subtle like growing head-space while other-times they are dramatic with catastrophic failure.

The same article also compared pressures mixing case and primer brands. The results were eye-opening to say the least.
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So we should all be shooting min loads then just to be safe.
 
ATOM said:
Speaks the man who's never had to go looking for rifle bits. It's... interesting.
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Just a quote from above. even before we see pressure signs we are already possible 10,000psi over. So we might as well all just shoot min loads and then everyone will be merry. the only way to truly stay in the safe pressure zone is to invest in all the equipment needed to measure the pressure. Tell me who is willing to do that?
Loading is just like anything else some people do it a bit different then others. Why does it matter to you if someone wants to start a min and work up by .5gr at a time shooting 100 rounds or start 5gr over what someone said is max. Its not you rifle or person behind it.

ps factory ammo can be just as over loaded as some one loading their own.
 
The purpose of most responses here are in regards to each others safety. No need to get riled up because some people care about others.
 
Just a quote from above. even before we see pressure signs we are already possible 10,000psi over. So we might as well all just shoot min loads and then everyone will be merry. the only way to truly stay in the safe pressure zone is to invest in all the equipment needed to measure the pressure. Tell me who is willing to do that?
Loading is just like anything else some people do it a bit different then others. Why does it matter to you if someone wants to start a min and work up by .5gr at a time shooting 100 rounds or start 5gr over what someone said is max. Its not you rifle or person behind it.

ps factory ammo can be just as over loaded as some one loading their own.
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If somebody posts something on this forum, it's asking for comment. The OP has got them - and, oddly enough, 95% of the people on this thread seem to think it's not a particularly good practice. Moreover, while it's not me, it might be me at the next bench on the range. Picking pieces of receiver out of my beard gets old real quick - been there, done that, burned the F t-shirt.

I've seen reloads destroy about three weapons. With the singular exception of one twinkie who decided to find out what would happen if he fired a ball round under a length of cleaning rod, I've never seen a factory round do that.
 
hometownhero said:
So we should all be shooting min loads then just to be safe.
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You missed the point about "sometimes".

One of the best tools for reading pressure is velocity. You must compare your rifle with the testing gear and barrel lengths but I will guarantee if you are matching book velocity you are at max.

If you are getting any amount of brass flow into the ejector slot you are over-pressure. If the primers are gone when you open the action you are over max. Primer-flattening and case head expansion are very subjective and can also indicate head-space issues or overly soft - or hard - brass.
 
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