Quality of Brass for Reloading

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01duse

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Just looking for some input on which brand of brass is more forgiving for reloading. I've traditionally used Remington brass in the past as I was told it is softer and therefore less prone to cracking without being annealed. I've been loading for 25+ years, not in high volume though, just for hunting, and have just started loading for a new 338 Win Mag purchase. I may need to purchase some new brass as 338 is not easy to find when I troll the gravel pits.

Also, any thoughts on loading the nickel- plated stuff?

Thanks in advance.......... Dan
 
stay away from imperial and dominion brass as this is the worst stuff out there, there is not much in the system but it is still showing up.
 
Everyone has different opinions and experiences. I personally hate WW-Super brass but others think it's the best brass outside of high dollar competition brands like Lapua and Norma. I've had good experiences with Remington brass but others think it's the worst garbage out there and just toss it in the scrap metal bucket as soon as they see the R-P headstamp.

There are also a lot of unfounded opinions out there I find. I once had a guy at a range hand me about 50 pieces of Federal 300WM brass because "it's garbage and if reloaded can blow up your gun". Another time (different guy) with about 60 7.62x54R Sellier and Bellot cases because they where "unreloadable commie ammo".

The only really consistent opinions is that the top dollar stuff is really good. I don't think I've ever read more than one or two bad experiences with Lapua, Norma, or other more expensive brass.

In my experience, and some may say I am totally wrong and don't know what I'm talking about:
Remington are good (I've never bought a bag of new brass from them that doesn't have 1-3 extra cases.)
Winchester are good (their bags of new unprimed brass are often short a case or two.)
WW-Super (Winchesters cheaper stuff) is garbage (loose primer pockets, off centre flash holes, easily split necks, overly thin, case head separations, etc.)
Federal is okay but a tad soft.
Hornady is pretty much on par with Federal.
Sellier and Bellot are good.
Prvi Partisan are good.

Don't have enough experience with Lapua, Norma, Starline, or other higher end brands to really have my own opinions.
 
It all depends on what a guy is looking for. If for example you are interested in match ammo, the lightest brass typically has the most uniform capacity, as a +/- 10% in weight makes less of a difference to capacity when the case is lighter to start with. If you're going to go to the trouble of sorting your brass by weight, turn necks, uniform primer pockets and flash-holes, and go to great lengths to ensure you're setting back your shoulder only enough for easy chambering, Federal will prove to be very frustrating. The primer pockets open up so quickly, all the work you’ve invested on that particular case might only last for a couple of firings. Yet I've chronied Federal blue box hunting ammo and have seen single digit velocity deviation for 5 rounds; that's pretty good for match ammo, never mind run of the mill hunting ammo. You don’t get that kind of uniformity from junk brass, so to call Federal brass junk, is a bit unfair. Conversely, Lapua has nice tight primer pockets, and the case heads are hard enough that you might get a few more reloads than you would with American brass. The brass is more uniform, so only those who are extremely anal will find it necessary to conduct a major amount of prep work with it, but those tight tolerances come at a price. If you find that the saving in prep time, and the longevity of cases justifies the price, then Lapua is your brass. For North American brass, I like Winchester the best, but frankly, I seem to load more Remington brass than all the others combined. When you hear someone say this brass or that brass is poor, find out what their complaint is. It might not be something that matters to you, or maybe they are just repeating what they've read in a magazine or on the web, and that particular complaint was only pertinent to a single lot number of brass from that manufacturer.
 
mg34 said:
stay away from imperial and dominion brass as this is the worst stuff out there, there is not much in the system but it is still showing up.
Click to expand...

I have some 30-30 imperial brass that I have loaded 20 + times. I load them near max for my gun as I found a load that I was able to cover a 5 shot group at 50 yds with a nickel. Nosler discontinued that bullet several yeas ago, i'm going to cry when load the last one.
 
Brass can vary in quality, I've always liked Remington BUT with Remington being bought out by a investment holding company anything goes when corporate earnings are put ahead of quality.

Your belted cases have the same problem as British .303 cases and can stretch badly when first fired because they are not headspacing on the shoulder of the case. The belted cases can sometimes have excessive head clearance or air space between the bolt face and the rear of the case and fireforming your cases will extend case life.

Half way down this web page below you will see a collet die for belted cases in case you run into problems.
http://www.larrywillis.com/

Below is from "Reloading Magazine" from over a year ago, these cases were full length resized with the die making hard contact with the shell holder.(cam over)

Just remember this when reading below, your rifles headspace setting or chamber length, the chamber diameter, chamber pressure and the quality of your brass will govern how long your brass will last. And case quality can vary from day to day depending on the batch of brass being used and annealing.

308fail-1.jpg


308fail2-1.jpg


brass-hard.jpg


I use the RCBS Case Mastering Gage to check for thinning and stretching in the base web area. Stretching is governed by headspace and the quality of the brass and it varies. Brand new cases can be shorter in cartridge headspace than SAAMI guidelines and I have seen cases over .009 shorter than minimum headspace or the GO gage.

RCBSCMG.jpg


case-bulge.jpg
 
And now to sum up. Hey, how do you sum up the replies? In just five replies, most brands are junk, or great, depending on who said it.
Even the good old CIL Dominion has been called the worst out there! Jack O'Connor, the undisputed dean of the US gun editors and writers, once advised hunters going into the mountains of western Canada to hunt, to wait and buy their ammunition in Canada, because the Dominion brand was so good!
The way I look at it is all the common brands have often been maligned, each it its turn, by modern shooters. However, each of those brands have been manufactured for a hundred years, or more. Does anyone think any brand would still be around and still actively used, if it was inferior? No way.
Most complaints about brass are caused by the reloader and/or his rifle.
A common complaint is primer pockets enlarging. Every brand of brass is designed to handle the pressure the rifle and case is designed for, without enlarging the primer pockets with only one, or only a very few loadings.
I cut my teeth on Norma brass and my sole loading information book was the 25 page, Norma Gunbug's Guide.
In that book Norma stated they receive complaints from reloaders about their brass being too soft and the primer pockets opening up with only one shot. Norma stated that lab tests constantly proved that it took in the order of 90,000 pounds of pressure to enlarge the primer pocket with one shot!
I personally have used every brand of brass going, and I have no brand that I will stay away from. The biggest difference in brass is in the weight variation from brand to brand. Therefore, one has to alter the charge of powder, depending on the weight of the cases. Remington is often the heaviest, while W-W sems to be about the lightest. But when loaded to the proper pressure I can see no difference in their longevity.
Another "fault" we hear on here about brass, is it "being so soft it almost has head seperation." That bright, shiny ring that shows up just ahead of the web on a case, sometimes being either and insipient, or full blown crack, is cause by too much headspace in the rifle. It is not caused by weak, or inferior brass.
 
Wow guys, lots of great info to keep me busy for a while. As I do only reload for hunting I generally don't get too fussy when sorting my cases. Only like to keep like manufacture together. I've had very good success with Norma brass for my 308NM but its starting to get pricey and hard to find. ($120/100 about 15yrs ago if I recall). Dominion brass has caused 2 case head separations in my 250Sav and 1 with Winchester brass in my other 250. I may try neck-sizing only with my 338WM once the cases are fire-formed to my chamber. I did this on my old K-Hornet with great results. I think I'll try a 50 bag of fresh Remington brass as I try to find a load for the 338WM so at least I have one constant in the equation. I've never tried RL19 either but I hear it performs well in the 338WM.

Thanks for all the input...... Dan
 
I reload with vitually every type of brass under the sun. I seem to be lucky compared to most because I have never run into bad brass from anybody. Alot of the wear and tear on brass is from the shape of your chamber and how much stretching the brasss has to do to fill the chamber for a proper seal. The study just ahead of my reply was a super test and a great study on brass ! Some people say they can get 6 reloads some say 20, so there are just to many variables. In my milsurps, which are normally a bit sloppy in the chambers, if I can get 6 to 8 reloads I am very happy and I do get that. The only real thing you can do is try different brands, two or three at a time and compare them in the same rifle and see what you get. It's all going to be based on your rifle. Every person is going to have a different experience so use the info as a guide only.
 
Point well taken, HIGHRPM. As I do have a fetish for tolling the pits for old brass, and do have an abundance of it (just not much 338 yet), I have had good success with Remington brass and should probably stick with it for now. Still not sure about the plated stuff yet. I do have a small quantity of it but have heard its pretty hard and more susceptible to cracking. Worth a try though, I guess.

Thanks
 
H4831 said:
That bright, shiny ring that shows up just ahead of the web on a case, sometimes being either and insipient, or full blown crack, is cause by too much headspace in the rifle. It is not caused by weak, or inferior brass.
Click to expand...

W-W brass gets shiny stretch marks in pretty much all of my rifles after 1-2 firings and no other brand gives me issues until 5+ firings. It happens with 7 different calibres in 7 different rifles and 4 of them where bought new. If it was a headspace issue shouldn't it happen with all brands of brass? And I can't imagine that 7 rifles I bought all have exactly the same problem with headspace.

It's only 7 because I've only used W-W brass in those 7. I never tested it in anything else after my bad experiences with that brand.
 
LUTNIT said:
W-W brass gets shiny stretch marks in pretty much all of my rifles after 1-2 firings and no other brand gives me issues until 5+ firings. It happens with 7 different calibres in 7 different rifles and 4 of them where bought new. If it was a headspace issue shouldn't it happen with all brands of brass? And I can't imagine that 7 rifles I bought all have exactly the same problem with headspace.

It's only 7 because I've only used W-W brass in those 7. I never tested it in anything else after my bad experiences with that brand.
Click to expand...

Just like I said, everybody has a different opinion.
 
I actually had my 250Sav re-headspaced after that with the same result.... Another cracked Winchester case stuck in the chamber. I should add that this was new brass, not once-fired.
 
I used to love WW and stuck to it religiously …. But now I find the quality has fallen lately.

I bought a Ruger No 1 in 257 a year ago and 5 boxes of factory Winchester ammo so I could work in the rifle and start with new brass, I had at least 16 out of 100 split at the neck after resizing the first time ….. I have since tried Norma, RP and Federal in the same rifle and same dies all with no split necks so I know it`s not the rifle or dies.

I've heard of similar issues from friends with Winchester brass lately.
 
Here in the U.S. Remington had the contract to make ammunition at our Military Lake City ammunition plant until 1985. They lost the contract to Winchester and then Winchester lost the contract to ATK in 2001. Many say after loosing these contracts both Remington and Winchester went down hill and their quality dropped off. I know Winchester sold off its plant for making brass and now buys its brass from other manufactures.

Bottom line, there is a reason competitive shooters are buying Finish made Lapua cartridge cases and its called quality.
 
I started reloading my own ammo in 1963. Since then I have shot very little factory offerings.
These days, if Lapua brass is available, I will use it.
However, I continue to use existing stocks of Winchester and other brass that I have gathered,
I like the CIL cases stamped "Dominion", and use them by choice in my 300 Savage and 8x57 Mauser [Both rifles are 700 Classics]
I have had little issues with most brass, but the Federal brass I have used is soft, without a doubt.
I just don't bother using it, except with very mild loads, like my 30-30.
Norma brass varys a bit in hardness, depending on the Chambering, but is high quality brass.
I will refrain from disputing my good friend H4831's comment about Norma brass. :D
Regards, Eagleye.
 
I must admit my experience with Norma brass is not extensive, other than some .22-250 that I mostly loaded for other folks, and the occasional peice of brass that found its way into by ammo box, but all of my .416 Rigby brass was Norma, and I had no complaints with its longevity. As I said earlier, Federal has proven soft in my experience.
 
H4831 said:
And now to sum up. Hey, how do you sum up the replies? In just five replies, most brands are junk, or great, depending on who said it.
Even the good old CIL Dominion has been called the worst out there! Jack O'Connor, the undisputed dean of the US gun editors and writers, once advised hunters going into the mountains of western Canada to hunt, to wait and buy their ammunition in Canada, because the Dominion brand was so good!
The way I look at it is all the common brands have often been maligned, each it its turn, by modern shooters. However, each of those brands have been manufactured for a hundred years, or more. Does anyone think any brand would still be around and still actively used, if it was inferior? No way.
Most complaints about brass are caused by the reloader and/or his rifle.
A common complaint is primer pockets enlarging. Every brand of brass is designed to handle the pressure the rifle and case is designed for, without enlarging the primer pockets with only one, or only a very few loadings.
I cut my teeth on Norma brass and my sole loading information book was the 25 page, Norma Gunbug's Guide.
In that book Norma stated they receive complaints from reloaders about their brass being too soft and the primer pockets opening up with only one shot. Norma stated that lab tests constantly proved that it took in the order of 90,000 pounds of pressure to enlarge the primer pocket with one shot!
I personally have used every brand of brass going, and I have no brand that I will stay away from. The biggest difference in brass is in the weight variation from brand to brand. Therefore, one has to alter the charge of powder, depending on the weight of the cases. Remington is often the heaviest, while W-W sems to be about the lightest. But when loaded to the proper pressure I can see no difference in their longevity.
Another "fault" we hear on here about brass, is it "being so soft it almost has head seperation." That bright, shiny ring that shows up just ahead of the web on a case, sometimes being either and insipient, or full blown crack, is cause by too much headspace in the rifle. It is not caused by weak, or inferior brass.
Click to expand...

This guys is a great post I beleive that most of the problems that people have are there own doing even if they think it is not. That is not to say a person can't get bad product because you can but I think that there is lot less bad product then bad practises.

Graydog
 
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A bad set of dies will make for rotten brass too.
A dear friend bought a Schultz $ Larsen in the famous 308 Norma Mag and
with the purchase got a set of Bonanza dies.
I tried to explain to him that these dies were just horrible and I would
trade him for my RCBS dies being the great chap that I am.
He wouldn't buy it.
Those dies made full length resizing effortless.
No drag, no binding..........nadda.
An absoute pleasure to use.
Now to find a set.
 
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