glueing ebony

mooncoon

mooncoon

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Another question for the peanut gallery :>) I have been trying to repair an ebony ramrod with the last 3 or 4 inches broken off. I tried using a 2" long scarf joint over a 5/16" diameter and used a two part epoxy glue. Worked sort of; just as I was doing the last sanding --- poink and the joint separated. Going into super genius mode, I soaked both ends in acetone for about 20 minutes, wiped them off and let dry for 3 or 4 minutes and glued again. This time the over flow hardened beautifully but the glue in the joint did not harden at all. Probably acetone vapours acted on the catalyst.

Question then; have any of you had any experience gluing ebony (successfully)

cheers mooncoon
 
I used it all the time on musical instruments I made. I never had problems with just using Titebond Original. If it were me I would try super glue on that joint, second choice would be Titebond III.
 
I've never glued ebony, but I do know that not all epoxies are created equal. I have found the slow cure G1 and G2 epoxies sold by Lee Valley to be without equal, at least in my experience. G2 is intended for oily or acidic wood and I can't help but think it would do the job.
 
Ebony IS oily wood, that's the whole problem. I don't think the slow cure is the way to go, you want the glue to set quickly after degreasing so that the oil from the wood doesn't seep over to the glue joint before it is set. I might recommend a quick spray of degreaser, and then try GorillaGlue.
 
Waba said:
I've never glued ebony, but I do know that not all epoxies are created equal. I have found the slow cure G1 and G2 epoxies sold by Lee Valley to be without equal, at least in my experience. G2 is intended for oily or acidic wood and I can't help but think it would do the job.
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this was G2 that I used; excellent glue for everything else. I have been using it for at least 10 or 15 years probably more. I think I may have to try Gabriel's suggestion and use a fast setting glue. I was really quite surprised; I expect ebony to be a hard wood much like gumwood (eucalyptus) but it is actually quite soft

cheers mooncoon
 
LeeValley tools sells a wood that can't be glued I found either due to the oil. Was using for panels on knives and had to pin them instead of epoxy like usual. Also are you sure it's ebony.
 
Retired Bagpiper here...Ebony, African Blackwood and the like cannot be glued, the wood grain is too tight and oily for a proper bond. Once cracked, its finished. I'm also surprised to hear that someone made a ramrod from ebony Mooncoon, I would have thought it a lousy material for that usage (no flex). Ebony is used in wind instruments for its tone characteristics. If you were to tap on the bell of a wind instrument it will "ring". Ebony is probably one of the hardest woods known, its got to be up there with Iron wood, Black wood, and tropical Cocobolo or surpasses them?
 
I would suggest pre-gluing both surfaces that you're trying to join together first.
Coursely, say 60grit, sand each surface to help create a mechanical bond.
Thurough de-grease each surface. This may require soaking/warming or combination of both.
Apply good quality THIN epoxy (for penitration into the pores created by the rough sanding) to both surfaces. Allow full cure.
Re- prep surfaces to be joined again allowing for a good mechanical/chemical bond.
 
Raton57 said:
. Also are you sure it's ebony.
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the original portion of the ramrod is a very dark brown when fresh material is exposed but very black as found. I think ebony can be found in a variety of very dark browns to black unless I am mistaken, The piece that I am attempting to add is jet black and definitely not as hard as gumwood although is very heavy. Possible that the main ramrod is some type of rosewood or something very dense and dark. I have seen shotgun cleaning rods made up in sections about 12" long and made from something very dark and dense but who knows what species

cheers mooncoon
 
Both Ebony and African Black wood are crazy heavy compared to anything else. Mooncoon, I had a friend who was a Bagpipe maker (deceased) and I constantly drilled him about the characteristics of both of these woods. It is purchased cured in ingots and turned on lathes for his process/purposes. He told me that once he took a small sample of Black wood and heated it in a cast iron skillet and the resin would just "melt" out of the wood. There is no gluing this stuff. Some of the bagpipes that are still in use are very old and very expensive as you may appreciate, if they crack and are worth the expensive repair there is a method of packing the crack with an epoxy and then an external wire wrap (almost like an Enfield wire wrap grenade gun) is made. The epoxy will never bond to the wood to prevent expansion/contraction but it is enough to maintain a seal allowing no air to escape. The wrap is to stabilize the crack. More often than not, a new piece is turned and the cracked one replaced, however a colour match is impossible as you've correctly stated both of these woods vary in colour from a reddish brown through the spectrum to black.
With Ebony, if you look closely{magnify} the wood is dark with minute red highlights in the grain...African Black wood does not.
 
mooncoon said:
Another question for the peanut gallery :>) I have been trying to repair an ebony ramrod with the last 3 or 4 inches broken off. I tried using a 2" long scarf joint over a 5/16" diameter and used a two part epoxy glue. Worked sort of; just as I was doing the last sanding --- poink and the joint separated. Going into super genius mode, I soaked both ends in acetone for about 20 minutes, wiped them off and let dry for 3 or 4 minutes and glued again. This time the over flow hardened beautifully but the glue in the joint did not harden at all. Probably acetone vapours acted on the catalyst.

Question then; have any of you had any experience gluing ebony (successfully)

cheers mooncoon
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i can't say enough good things about 3m's panel bonding adhesive .

the only thing i would do differently would be i would use laquer thinner instead of acetone ( only because i know laquer thinner won't have a negitive effect on panel bonding adhesive ) .

what might be happening after you soak the ebony , as the acetone dries and evoporates , it may be pulling natural oils to the surface behind it .

i would let it dry over night instead of 3 or 4 minutes to make sure all the acetone has evaporated , then just before gluing i would give the ends a quick scrubbing with a scotch brite pad soaking in acetone .


if you haven't broken the glue joint yet , i would try warming it up with a heat gun first to see if that might encourage the expoxy to set up .
 
I would soak the wood in alcohol and let it dry, use a small dremil drill bit and drill into the center of each so the holes line up, then I would acraglas a metal peg "adapted nail or somesuch" into one side, after that dried I would fill the hole in the otherside also with acraglas and stick it together then after its dry sand it up nice.

I think acraglas is excellent for wood repairs, and as the wood is black you can dye the acraglas to match.

Rough up the peg with some emery cloth and the hole interiors with a small dental pick or some such to give the acraglas something to grip onto.
 
I've had good results using a quick wipe of naphtha, 95% ethanol or 99% isopropanol on a cottonball as a degreaser and original titebond as adhesive when gluing resinous, oily tropical hardwoods. In my experience, acetone evaporates too quickly and even with soaking the oils are re-deposited on the wood surface, sans solvent, before I can wipe everything off. I've never had good results using superglue with wood but I know others have..

Also, when I glue ebony fretboards to maple, I sand the to-be-joined surfaces to 120 grit max so the wood fibres intertwine somewhat.

Good luck with your project!
 
If you don't think ebony will glue, try pulling a fingerboard off of a double bass, or a violin or cello.
I had an ebony fretless fingerboard installed on a Fender electric bass guitar neck.
 
Paatz said:
If you don't think ebony will glue, try pulling a fingerboard off of a double bass, or a violin or cello.
I had an ebony fretless fingerboard installed on a Fender electric bass guitar neck.
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I've pulled one off a cello and an electric bass, ebony certainly DOES glue, lots of heat and prying required!
 
braun said:
I've had good results using a quick wipe of naphtha, 95% ethanol or 99% isopropanol on a cottonball as a degreaser and original titebond as adhesive when gluing resinous, oily tropical hardwoods. In my experience, acetone evaporates too quickly and even with soaking the oils are re-deposited on the wood surface, sans solvent, before I can wipe everything off. I've never had good results using superglue with wood but I know others have..

Also, when I glue ebony fretboards to maple, I sand the to-be-joined surfaces to 120 grit max so the wood fibres intertwine somewhat.

Good luck with your project!
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Im a pro woodworker that specializes in exotic wood construction, and the above is the advice you want to follow.
 
A week or more ago now, I tried again using an old container of Crazy Glue ( I think; it was one of those fast drying glues and I have chucked the empty container). After sitting on top of the hot water tank for several days, the G2 had hardedened on the seam edge of both pieces. I gave each a light sanding to smooth out any bumps but was careful not to cut through to the wood. Then covered both sides with crazy glue (which was partly set up but what did I have to lose) and left if for several days . At the moment the two pieces are stuck together and I have tried bending them lightly but am afraid to put much tension on the break.
The original rod when sanded was a dark reddish brown which goes black with linseed oil. The replacement piece was from a block of jet black wood that is fairly heavy but it does particularly slow my saw or smoke when I cut it. I will admit that the piece that I am cutting is relatively small; about 2" square and 6" long

I will probably keep the ebony rod in the gun for appearance and make a new rod from brazilian cherry for shooting

cheers mooncoon
 
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