Froglube and milsurp corrosive ammo

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Not sure if this is the right place to post this but here goes:

I just got some Froglube to try out and couldn't find any official statement saying whether it works on corrosive ammo so I decided to ask the source. Here is the email exchange:

> Hi,
>
> I just bought some Froglube paste. I'm impressed so far but I was wondering if you can give an recommendations for a cleaning process to use with corrosively primed surplus ammunition.
>
> Previously I've dissolved the corrosive salts with boiling water and then used WD40 to displace any water left behind before cleaning as usual. I can't find anything stating that Froglube has any effect on corrosive salts and I don't like the idea of not using WD40 (petroleum product) or something to remove any remaining water after I rinse out the salts.
>
> What is your recommendation? Should I only use the Froglube on firearms that shoot non-corrosive ammunition?
>
> Thanks,
>****

****,
Please avoid the use of WD-40 on or near your primers. There are a lot of experienced shooters who will caution you against this practice.

FrogLube is a anti-oxidant and it will dissolve salts on contact. For a quick test, try it on some calcification on your shower door. You'll see what we mean. We have done extensive tests on ammunition and it cleans and protects the ammo we've tested.

You can use FrogLube on all your firearms with safety and confidence. We encourage it!

FrogLube


Can anyone comment on the science behind their statement (FrogLube as an anti-oxidant and WD-40 near primers) or let me know what their experiences have been? I'm not a chemistry expert but anti-oxidants dissolving salts doesn't jump out to me as being entirely accurate.

For the record, I cleaned my new SVT-40 (thanks SFRC!) with alcohol and Froglubed it with heat, shot about 20 rounds and put it in the safe (with a desiccant in it) for 3 days and have seen no rust so far. :)
 
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The boiling hot water and a funnel in the arse end has worked for a hundred years to wash out the primer salts. I just use gun oil to protect the bore after the usual cleaning with patches once the hot water has done it's job.
 
x2 For the boiling water, and then a standard clean up after that. I watch all my guns and nothing has happened to them in all these years. No reason to spend money when hot water will do the job.
 
The important thing is "HOT" water, the hotter the better, use the funnel method already mentioned, followed by an immediate shake and rub down. The heat in the metal will dissipate any residual water. The clean and lube as normal
 
OK , here it is again. Every barrel has microscopic cracks in it (even new ones) The primer salts are driven into those cracks, Boiling hot water expands the metal so the salts will be washed out of the cracks.. Hoppe's No9 or any of the other bore solvents will not do that.
Once the salts are gone, then Hoppes can be used to clean out the rest of the fouling.

With non corrosive primers the hot water is not needed.
 
I have two 91/30s, one in far better condition than the other. In my nice one, I've done the hot water followed by frog lube, in the less nice one, just froglube. I've put probably 500 rounds through each since I started this test, and honestly, I can't see any difference in the two.

I'll probably keep with the hot water treatment, as that's what I've always done and is just part of my routine after shooting surplus ammo, but judging by my 'test' it doesn't really look like it's necessary.
 
Well - Heres my take ... Water works well because the primer salts are water soluble, and not necessarily soluble in organic solvents. Boiling water works well because it is self drying, and prevents the risk of leaving residual water in the barrel, which in itself is problematic.
Any attempt at cleaning the bore will purge some of the salts, as a minimum by mechanical means. Why dont you do a test? Remove the bullet and powder from a corrosive bullet - shoot it at a steel plate. Clean it with Frog Lube. Compare the result to water only... Report back to us.
 
Water in and of itself does not corrode anything. It is the impurities (calcium, sodium etc.) that do. That is why you need to boil the water before pouring it down the bore.
 
davemccarthy707 said:
Water in and of itself does not corrode anything. It is the impurities (calcium, sodium etc.) that do. That is why you need to boil the water before pouring it down the bore.
Click to expand...

Actually, the rusting of iron and steel is an electrochemical process that begins with the transfer of electrons from iron to oxygen. The rate of corrosion is affected by water and accelerated by electrolytes, as illustrated by the effects of road salt on the corrosion of automobiles. The key reaction is the reduction of oxygen:

O2 + 4 e− + 2 H2O → 4 OH−
Because it forms hydroxide ions, this process is strongly affected by the presence of acid. Indeed, the corrosion of most metals by oxygen is accelerated at low pH. Providing the electrons for the above reaction is the oxidation of iron that may be described as follows:

Fe → Fe2+ + 2 e−
The following redox reaction also occurs in the presence of water and is crucial to the formation of rust:

4 Fe2+ + O2 → 4 Fe3+ + 2 O2−
In addition, the following multistep acid-base reactions affect the course of rust formation:

Fe2+ + 2 H2O ⇌  Fe(OH)2 + 2 H+
Fe3+ + 3 H2O ⇌ Fe(OH)3 + 3 H+
as do the following dehydration equilibria:

Fe(OH)2 ⇌ FeO +  H2O
Fe(OH)3 ⇌ FeO(OH) +  H2O
2 FeO(OH) ⇌ Fe2O3 +  H2O

Rusted pyrite cubes embedded in a stony matrixFrom the above equations, it is also seen that the corrosion products are dictated by the availability of water and oxygen. With limited dissolved oxygen, iron(II)-containing materials are favoured, including FeO and black lodestone (Fe3O4). High oxygen concentrations favour ferric materials with the nominal formulae Fe(OH)3-xOx/2. The nature of rust changes with time, reflecting the slow rates of the reactions of solids.

Furthermore, these complex processes are affected by the presence of other ions, such as Ca2+, both of which serve as an electrolyte, and thus accelerate rust formation, or combine with the hydroxides and oxides of iron to precipitate a variety of Ca-Fe-O-OH species.

Onset of rusting can also be detected in laboratory with the use of Ferroxyl indicator solution. The solution detects both Fe2+ ions and hydroxyl ions. Formation of Fe2+ ions and hydroxyl ions are indicated by blue and pink patches respectively.

In conclusion, use water to wash out the salts, dry, and use frog lube, or your #### will fall off.
 
5440fight said:
Actually, the rusting of iron and steel is an electrochemical process that begins with the transfer of electrons from iron to oxygen. The rate of corrosion is affected by water and accelerated by electrolytes, as illustrated by the effects of road salt on the corrosion of automobiles. The key reaction is the reduction of oxygen:

O2 + 4 e− + 2 H2O → 4 OH−
Because it forms hydroxide ions, this process is strongly affected by the presence of acid. Indeed, the corrosion of most metals by oxygen is accelerated at low pH. Providing the electrons for the above reaction is the oxidation of iron that may be described as follows:

Fe → Fe2+ + 2 e−
The following redox reaction also occurs in the presence of water and is crucial to the formation of rust:

4 Fe2+ + O2 → 4 Fe3+ + 2 O2−
In addition, the following multistep acid-base reactions affect the course of rust formation:

Fe2+ + 2 H2O ⇌  Fe(OH)2 + 2 H+
Fe3+ + 3 H2O ⇌ Fe(OH)3 + 3 H+
as do the following dehydration equilibria:

Fe(OH)2 ⇌ FeO +  H2O
Fe(OH)3 ⇌ FeO(OH) +  H2O
2 FeO(OH) ⇌ Fe2O3 +  H2O

Rusted pyrite cubes embedded in a stony matrixFrom the above equations, it is also seen that the corrosion products are dictated by the availability of water and oxygen. With limited dissolved oxygen, iron(II)-containing materials are favoured, including FeO and black lodestone (Fe3O4). High oxygen concentrations favour ferric materials with the nominal formulae Fe(OH)3-xOx/2. The nature of rust changes with time, reflecting the slow rates of the reactions of solids.

Furthermore, these complex processes are affected by the presence of other ions, such as Ca2+, both of which serve as an electrolyte, and thus accelerate rust formation, or combine with the hydroxides and oxides of iron to precipitate a variety of Ca-Fe-O-OH species.

Onset of rusting can also be detected in laboratory with the use of Ferroxyl indicator solution. The solution detects both Fe2+ ions and hydroxyl ions. Formation of Fe2+ ions and hydroxyl ions are indicated by blue and pink patches respectively.

In conclusion, use water to wash out the salts, dry, and use frog lube, or your #### will fall off.
Click to expand...

It's really cold where you live, isn't it:canadaFlag:

Good read though
 
It's amazing how a simple cleaning job can turn so technical. I will stay with the hot water as I for the life of me can't make any sence of all those equasions, way too much info, lol !
 
From what I understand, frog lube, in its beginning treatment, coats the rifle with a kind of "Teflon coating". Would this not cover the microscopic cracks in the barrel? Just wondering.
 
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