20 Rds SVT/AVT 40 Mags?

I heard that the AVT 40 (full auto version) had the 20 rounders. I'm not sure if they were issued or if they were just in the trial stage before they determined that the full auto version sucked for accuracy as you couldn't control that level of power in full auto. I also read that they didn't last long with full auto use as they basically just shot themselves apart with parts breakage and wrecked the stock too.

I imagine there will be others out there with more detail, but I think that is the gist of it...

Ian
 
From the svt sticky thread

The AVT 40 is a selective fire version of the regular SVT 40. On the regular SVT, the safety is flipped at left for "fire" and down for "safe" On the AVT, the safety is flipped at the right for "full auto" mode. Externally, the AVT looks the same as the SVT. Reportedly, larger 15 or 20 rounds magazines were designed. However, the author could not find any further information. The AVT entered in production in August 1943, but was halted soon after because the rifle was uncontrollable in full automatic fire and suffered from parts breakages.
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The AVT 40 is a selective fire version of the regular SVT 40. On the regular SVT, the safety is flipped at left for "fire" and down for "safe" On the AVT, the safety is flipped at the right for "full auto" mode. Externally, the AVT looks the same as the SVT. Reportedly, larger 15 or 20 rounds magazines were designed. However, the author could not find any further information. The AVT entered in production in August 1943, but was halted soon after because the rifle was uncontrollable in full automatic fire and suffered from parts breakages.

Back to the Drawing Board.
 
What I'm saying is that if they had built a full auto Garand variant, it would have been just as prone to breakage...
 
Well it will not be a high rate of fire any way. Can't compare a real purpose built machine gun to AVT 40. If USSR went to trouble adopting this rifle in full auto version, then they must have designed different mags for it?
If so what would be the shape of these mags? May be 30 rds?:eek:
Would be cool to have one 5/30 SVT 40 mags? I'm dreaming.:cool:
 
RMXC51 said:
What I'm saying is that if they had built a full auto Garand variant, it would have been just as prone to breakage...
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They did build a full auto Garand variant.

It was full auto capable and designed to take the BAR 20 round magazines believe it or not. The T20.

They also made full auto variants the T20E2 which was full auto capable but the magazines of that variant were not interchangeable with the BAR.

T20E2HB with a heavy barrel.

Also Remington even produced a few for trials.

None of them ever saw any service duty, from what I have read they were uncontrollable and had numerous feeding issues that were never overcome or seen of any value at the time.

Full auto 11 pound shoulder fired .30-06 rifle? No thanks lol
 
Travis Bickle said:
They did build a full auto Garand variant.

It was full auto capable and designed to take the BAR 20 round magazines believe it or not. The T20.

They also made full auto variants the T20E2 which was full auto capable but the magazines of that variant were not interchangeable with the BAR.

T20E2HB with a heavy barrel.

Also Remington even produced a few for trials.

None of them ever saw any service duty, from what I have read they were uncontrollable and had numerous feeding issues that were never overcome or seen of any value at the time.

Full auto 11 pound shoulder fired .30-06 rifle? No thanks lol
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Italy built one that saw active duty, the BM-59. While it was not 30-06 but instead in 308, it was still a Garand variant. As for the comment of breakage, what about the M-14? The Garand can handle full auto fire just fine. If it couldn't, it wouldn't stand up under prolonged use in Semi-auto fire.
 
Travis Bickle said:
Full auto 11 pound shoulder fired .30-06 rifle? No thanks lol
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Would a BAR not count as one of those? And heavier too.

To get back on topic, I've read that the AVT40 that did see some trials use were mainly fired semi-auto. Only when the officer or commissar allowed, would they be fired in automatic.

[youtube]ZBQ5WK9sop8[/youtube]

Given the amount of flex in the entire rifle in semi only operation I can see how automatic would be a less then optimal support weapon. Guess they just had to make more DP-28's.
 
I never saw any evidence of factory made 20 rounds mag. However there were 20 rnds mags, not factory manufactured but custom made from 2 original mags. Here's the picture of guns and other stuff found in one of the hideouts of members of Ukrainian Insurgent Army (UPA) that fought both Nazi and Soviets during and after WW2. You can see custom mag on the bottom left.
w_aac36b5c.jpg
 
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Horilka said:
I never saw any evidence of factory made 20 rounds mag. However there were 20 rnds mags, not factory manufactured but custom made from 2 original mags. Here's the picture of guns and other staff found in one of the hideouts of members of Ukrainian Insurgent Army (UPA) that fought both Nazi and Soviets during and after WW2. You can see custom mag on the bottom left.
w_aac36b5c.jpg
Click to expand...

Very cool!
 
There were 15, 20 and 25 rd mags for SVT/AVT. Not all of of them were designed by F.V. Tokarev, one was designed by Simonov. There were attempts by Tokarev to weld 2 10 rounders together, but it didn't work well.
Here is a design by Bubnov and Skvorcov--20 rd trommel. Designed in 1943. There was a lot ordered for field trials, but this design showed new types of stoppages in SVT/AVT's, stoppages never heard of before. By the time it was all tweaked, in late 1943, the Soviet Army didn't need SVT/AVT's any more....
2211733_zpsd7b42960.jpg

2211731_zps83823fda.jpg
 
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