IPSC & IDPA Stages

S

SUPERMAG

CGN Regular
Rating - 100%
40   0   0
Location
Nowhere in rural Ontario
Seeing as I have never shot IDPA, and this is by NO way a IDPA bashing question?
Are there any significant differnces in Stage design? Between the 2?
What would I have to do to be able to have IPSC & IDPA shot on the same target layouts
I know I need to change targets.

any input would be appreciated

Supermag
 
stages a limited to 18 rounds max and there is a limit on the total distance of movement. they cannot be shot freestyle, the walkthru usually dictates the order you will shoot the stage in. easiest thing to do is build an ipsc stage and throw some extra walls in for people to hide behind while shooting/reloading
 
IPSC is all about 'freestyle'. In IDPA, creativity is reserved for the stage designer. For the shooter, it's all about execution.
 
You might want to review the Course of Fire rules set out in the IDPA rule book. As been pointed out the maximum round count on an IDPA stage is 18 rounds. Total movement is limited to a maximum of 15 yards. In addition we avoid 11 round stages and do ensure stages are revolver neutral. The curent rule book allows targets to be shot in the open at the start of a stage. Once at cover, if cover is present on the stage, all remaining shots must be taken from cover. Low cover and prone positions occur at the end of a stage to accomodate those with physical impairments. There have been several rulings relative to stage design. These are set out in the forum section of the idapacanada.ca website.

The two sports are fun but they are different. The differences in stage design are pronounced and you would be well advised to treat the stage design process for both sports as two very separate disciplines.

If you have a stage you are concerned about contact myself or an Area Contact close to you for advice. Their contact information is located on the IDPA Canada website.

Take Care

Bob
 
A basic principal of good IDPA stage design is that the most efficient way to shoot the stage should be naturally evident to the shooter. If the stage rules require the shooter to memorize a target order or movement then this principal has been violated and the designer has failed. Basically shoot them as you see them, closest to farthest or one shot to each target first, before a second round in any to neutralize, if close to or at the same distance from the shooter AND visible at the same time. The 18 round rule not a rule so much as a guide as revolver neutral is suggested but not required because Of different classes but Pistols may only carry 2 mags on the belt and revolvers 3 speed loaders. CDP class is limited to 8 round magazines.
 
OMG, its just painfull, current club rep gave me the rule book today, spent the last 3 hours getting informed, and GOD HELP YOU if you drop a mag that still has rounds in it, LOL, it is certainly going to be an adjustment. Maybe someone IDPAish can rime in on why the 180 rule does not exist??? and why finger on the trigger is not a DQ???

Sig
 
TrailMaker said:
A basic principal of good IDPA stage design is that the most efficient way to shoot the stage should be naturally evident to the shooter. If the stage rules require the shooter to memorize a target order or movement then this principal has been violated and the designer has failed. Basically shoot them as you see them, closest to farthest or one shot to each target first, before a second round in any to neutralize, if close to or at the same distance from the shooter AND visible at the same time. The 18 round rule not a rule so much as a guide as revolver neutral is suggested but not required because Of different classes but Pistols may only carry 2 mags on the belt and revolvers 3 speed loaders. CDP class is limited to 8 round magazines.
Click to expand...

I am not sure where you get your information but you might want to reference the rule book. CoF rule #19 , page 13 covers the maximum round count per string of fire. Revolver neutral stages is more than a suggestion.


Take Care

Bob
 
One consideration for using the same stages is that fault lines are not allowed in IDPA. You would have to pull up any IPSC boards/lines before shooting the same array as an IDPA stage. ... It might be considered OK to leave fault lines in as long as they aren't denoting cover, but it's just as easy to not have any and avoid the arguments.

The 180 rule doesnt exist so that MD's can declare a narrower or wider muzzle safety area. Marking a smaller angle with flags can be used to keep the muzzle angles tight indoors and a wider angle could be used (if allowed by range construction) to add realism. At our matches 180 is the default unless otherwise specified. SO's in IDPA can issue safety commands if they feel a competitors muzzle is approaching an unsafe angle.
 
Last edited:
raks said:
One consideration for using the same stages is that fault lines are not allowed in IDPA. You would have to pull up any IPSC boards/lines before shooting the same array as an IDPA stage. ... It might be considered OK to leave fault lines in as long as they aren't denoting cover, but it's just as easy to not have any and avoid the arguments.

The 180 rule doesnt exist so that MD's can declare a narrower or wider muzzle safety area. Marking a smaller angle with flags can be used to keep the muzzle angles tight indoors and a wider angle could be used (if allowed by range construction) to add realism. At our matches 180 is the default unless otherwise specified. SO's in IDPA can issue safety commands if they feel a competitors muzzle is approaching an unsafe angle.
Click to expand...

I am trying to learn, this is not an IPSC shooters point of view, just a RM, you come to my range and you break 180???? I dont care who you are, what sport or what branch of any service, I will personally walk you to the gate..........thats shooting uprange, so please someone clarify this for me :(

Sig
 
curtdad said:
OK FOLKS, Really????? still no response on basic firearms safety??????
Sig
Click to expand...

Calm down, no need to freak out!

curtdad said:
I am trying to learn, this is not an IPSC shooters point of view, just a RM, you come to my range and you break 180???? ...
Click to expand...

If you don't feel good about it, simply don't set any stages with a safety angle greater than 180. It is never required that you have stages like this, but the option is there if it works on your range and with your Safety Officers (SO).

Consider that some ranges across the country have berms on all 4 sides.

If appropriate IDPA allows the Match Director (MD) flexibility to set a stage with a wider angle than 180 degrees. Setting a tighter angle than 180 is also allowed and IMO a great idea. Remember that there is no required safety training for shooting IDPA in many areas. A tighter angle forces more disciplined muzzle control which I think is good for everyone!
 
Last edited:
curtdad said:
OK FOLKS, Really????? still no response on basic firearms safety??????
Sig
Click to expand...

It is possible to have a range (shooting bay) that allows shooting safely in an angle greater than 180 degrees.
There are also shoot houses which would allow 360 degree shooting.

It's funny to see some IPSCers hack on a sport for having 'strick' rules with regard to mag retention and stage sequence, but struggle to understand some of the other intricacies. Try thinking outside your IPSC box - it's no worse or better, just different.
 
curtdad said:
I am trying to learn, this is not an IPSC shooters point of view, just a RM, you come to my range and you break 180???? I dont care who you are, what sport or what branch of any service, I will personally walk you to the gate..........thats shooting uprange, so please someone clarify this for me :(

Sig
Click to expand...

A careful read of the current rule book would indicate that the 180 rules is not 'hard & fast' in IPSC either:

10.5.2 Allowing the muzzle of a firearm to point uprange, or past the default, or specific safe angles of fire during a
course of fire....

The bold text seems to allow that angles both lesser AND greater than 180 (the default) may be allowed during A CoF.

In my experience, most MDs and RMs are either too lazy, or too dogmatic (usually the latter) to stray from the 'default'.
 
beltfed said:
It is possible to have a range (shooting bay) that allows shooting safely in an angle greater than 180 degrees.
There are also shoot houses which would allow 360 degree shooting.

It's funny to see some IPSCers hack on a sport for having 'strick' rules with regard to mag retention and stage sequence, but struggle to understand some of the other intricacies. Try thinking outside your IPSC box - it's no worse or better, just different.
Click to expand...

Just to make this clear this IPSCer is not "HACKING" on your rules as well I am on here as an IDPA shooter trying to learn. I also have no issue with mag retention, my comment was intended as a joke but I must admit it will be a hard habit to break. Lastly, although I have not finished all the rules as of yet, I am finding the rules rather leniant. I have yet to see a range in Ontario that allows 360 deg firing, maybe I should move out west :D

Sig
 
Aqualung said:
A careful read of the current rule book would indicate that the 180 rules is not 'hard & fast' in IPSC either:

10.5.2 Allowing the muzzle of a firearm to point uprange, or past the default, or specific safe angles of fire during a
course of fire....

The bold text seems to allow that angles both lesser AND greater than 180 (the default) may be allowed during A CoF.

In my experience, most MDs and RMs are either too lazy, or too dogmatic (usually the latter) to stray from the 'default'.
Click to expand...

As has been pointed out to me, there are ranges that do incorporate 360 deg shooting....... I have shot at a few different ranges in a few different countries and have never seen one. So now my question, as a range officer, on a normal downrange COF, if the competitor breaks 90, does he go home??

Sig
 
curtdad said:
As has been pointed out to me, there are ranges that do incorporate 360 deg shooting....... I have shot at a few different ranges in a few different countries and have never seen one. So now my question, as a range officer, on a normal downrange COF, if the competitor breaks 90, does he go home??

Sig
Click to expand...

Shooters whose gun aproaches 189 degrees may hear thr SO yell "Muzzle", a warning that his/her gun is approaching or may have crossed the 180 degree mark. If a shooters exceeds the 180 degree, receives the warning and makes no effort to correct the muzzle direction he will receive DQ. Warnings are more prevalent than DQs in the sport. Having SO'd at a dozen or so Provincial and State matches and many club matches I personally have DQ`s only three shooters due to breaking 180 degrees. One where the shooter did a 360 in front of me, one where he tripped while moving horizonatally, and the third where he turned up range. I suspect the rareness of the calls reflects the design and type of stages we shoot.

I should add it is the Match Directors call based on input from the SO on the stage. Safety is is a major concern and where warranted shooters go home. In IPSC do you send a shooter home for breaking 90 degrees by one degree, two degrees, three degree.......IDPA uses a warning system to avoid a shooter going from one degree over to a point where safety is a concern. Where warranted we also use safety cones to indicate safe muzzle points. It works in IDPA. If you have any concerns please contact me via email or by phone. My contact information is on the IDPA Canada website.

You have indicated you are reading the rule book, you should also download the Addendum from the idpa.com website. You should also know the rules are presently under review and a new rule book will be out May - June of this year. There will be some changes.

To the OP there are Area Contacts close to where your club is situated who are available to provide guidance on course design and running a match. I have asked our Area Conacts to make early visits to our two new clubs in Ontario to provide assistance and guidance. I sent you a PM and will email you a Guide Sheet developed by a major club in the US which I am sure will prove useful.

Take Care

Bob
ps Sig just dropping a partially loaded mag on the ground does not automatically get you a 3 seconf penalty. I will leave it to you to discover when it does and when it doesn`t.
 
IPSC uses "modified" 90's all the time. Sometimes you can go past 90, other times it would be unsafe to even go close to it. And sometimes...........the 90 changes throughout the stage! The only thing that matters is that it's done safely, not wether is 92 or 89.
 
kanada kidd said:
IPSC uses "modified" 90's all the time. Sometimes you can go past 90, other times it would be unsafe to even go close to it. And sometimes...........the 90 changes throughout the stage! The only thing that matters is that it's done safely, not wether is 92 or 89.
Click to expand...

Bingo!

Take Care

Bob
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom