So I picked up a Baikal IZH-94MP .22 over .410

[Pooker]

I have an M6 Scout on it's way to me. It's in 22 Hornet over 410. I saw a video on them and I just had to have one for trail carry sled/quad/Jeep. It may arrive today, my fingers are crossed! I would probably perferred it to be 20 ga, but I don't believe they come in that. As far as I Know they come in 22LR or 22Hornet over 410. Springfield Armory developed them for survival of pilots that have been downed. All metal and almost indestructable with ammo storeage in the top off the butt stock. They brake down into two with the removal of a pin. I can hardly wait for it to arrive.

Oh, I'm so jealous. That's actually exactly what I was looking for but they're so damn hard to find/way too expensive up here. .22 Hornet would definitely be ideal over .22LR for overall effectiveness on varmint to small game, but I'll take what I can get

 

[1899]

Pooker - give CCI Velociters a try. They are pretty stout loads.

 

[Pooker]

Pooker - give CCI Velociters a try. They are pretty stout loads.

Will do. I'll drop by CT and see if they have any on the way to work today. Also, Baikal got back to me just a few minutes ago and they offer IC, M, and of course, F chokes for $22/each. I'm thinking of just getting a modified because I can't imagine an IC being of much use in the .410. Opinions?

 

[1899]

I am not sure about getting anything other than a full choke for a .410....what is the point of the pattern opening up even more?

 

[Pooker]

I am not sure about getting anything other than a full choke for a .410....what is the point of the pattern opening up even more?

I was thinking mostly for slugs and buck. I know you can shoot rifled slugs through full chokes on 12ga shotguns, but was advised otherwise for the .410. Figured I might get a better pattern from the buck with a more open choke as well, but I'm not sure if it would make much of a difference as I heard .410 buck is usually pretty poorly patterning due to the fact that the shot flattens out upon being fired.

 

[Porschemann]

Dude, seriously, drift the rear sight off and flip it over. It is on backwards... seen them like that before and don't know why or how they got like that but when you turn it around so it leans back instead of forwards, you will find that it shoots much better and is more accurate!

 

[Pooker]

Dude, seriously, drift the rear sight off and flip it over. It is on backwards... seen them like that before and don't know why or how they got like that but when you turn it around so it leans back instead of forwards, you will find that it shoots much better and is more accurate!

Are you sure? Every photo I've seen of the IZH-94 has had the sight on so that it's leaning forward

 

[1899]

IMHO .410 buckshot and slugs are pretty much useless. What were you planning on using it for?

 

[Pooker]

IMHO .410 buckshot and slugs are pretty much useless. What were you planning on using it for?

Hiking and camping gun mostly. Thought (provided they were accurate enough) that slugs might be decent to carry if I really needed them for something larger like coyotes or what have you, though then again I suppose a stout .22 would do the job about as well for a fraction of the cost and guess work.

 

[1899]

Hiking and camping gun mostly. Thought (provided they were accurate enough) that slugs might be decent to carry if I really needed them for something larger like coyotes or what have you, though then again I suppose a stout .22 would do the job about as well for a fraction of the cost and guess work.

My thoughts exactly.

 

[Pooker]

My thoughts exactly.

That being said, I already have some .410 sluggers; what are your thoughts on using them through the full choke?

 

[1899]

That being said, I already have some .410 sluggers; what are your thoughts on using them through the full choke?

I don't know if it is ok. Having said that I used - out of curiosity and not many times - slugs out of my Boito SxS and it was, iirc, M/F. According to Brenneke's website the Magnum (3") and Close Encounter (2 3/4") can be used out of all chokes.

 

[Pooker]

I don't know if it is ok. Having said that I used - out of curiosity and not many times - slugs out of my Boito SxS and it was, iirc, M/F. According to Brenneke's website the Magnum (3") and Close Encounter (2 3/4") can be used out of all chokes.

In that case, I'd imagine the Winchester 2.5" slugs will be fine out of this then.
Also, CT didnt have Velicotors in stock but they had stingers. I'll check another store tomorrow.

 

[jeffcarr88]

My .410 has a M choke and a 20" barrel...good with 3" #6 shot up to about 20 yards but I would not push it any farther then that...just bought some MUCH cheaper 2 1/2" #6 loads that want to try...$11/25 instead of $21/25.

As for the 1/5oz 2 1/2" slugs...they actually shoot pretty well out to 35ish yard (granted I have only a bead to aim with) and pack more punch then a .22LR and are just fun to use but cost about $1/each. I think if I had to take a deer, survival situation I would use a .410 slug over a .22LR.

 

[Pooker]

My .410 has a M choke and a 20" barrel...good with 3" #6 shot up to about 20 yards but I would not push it any farther then that...just bought some MUCH cheaper 2 1/2" #6 loads that want to try...$11/25 instead of $21/25.

As for the 1/5oz 2 1/2" slugs...they actually shoot pretty well out to 35ish yard (granted I have only a bead to aim with) and pack more punch then a .22LR and are just fun to use but cost about $1/each. I think if I had to take a deer, survival situation I would use a .410 slug over a .22LR.

Good to know! From the bit of research I did the 2 1/2" slugs carry about the same energy as a .357 Mag so yeah, definitely (if they shoot decently) more valuable for medium game in a survival situation. We shall see tomorrow!

 

[hoytcanon]

That gun would look cool as a Mannlicher... it would be an easy project to chop the forend at 45 degrees and extend it with rosewood or cocobolo... I agree with 1899... one full choke tube is all you need for a .410, it likely won't develope a consistently lethal pattern beyond 10-15 yards with a more open choke. I was shocked at the lethal distance of a .410 full choke gun, when a partner brought one along on a our annual bowhunting trip for moose... the area had a huge number of sharpies (which are large tough birds) and he was taking them down cleanly at 35-45 yards (we paced it off numerous times)... my son and I were shooting 12 gauge 870's.

p.s - squirrel season closes Dec. 15th... no need to rock the boat.

 

[1899]

Good to know! From the bit of research I did the 2 1/2" slugs carry about the same energy as a .357 Mag so yeah, definitely (if they shoot decently) more valuable for medium game in a survival situation. We shall see tomorrow!

The .357 Mag should do about 1800 fps with a 180gr and a 125gr bullet should be over 2100fps with top loads. The 2 1/2" Winchester Super-X slugs are listed at 1830fps for an 87.5gr slug.

Now I haven't owned/chronographed a .357 mag rifle (only a revolver), so those numbers from reloading data are not confirmed (niether is the claim for the slug). But I think you can see the point that the .410 slug is nowhere near the performance of the .357 Magnum.

 

[two-dogs]

got my M6 in the mail yesterday (22 Hornet over 410) she's a sweety. Made the journey into the big bad city to WSS & Cabela's and got the only ammo available in 22 Hornet, Rem 45 gr PSP and Win Super X 46 gr hollow point. Which ammo would be the best for defence (not hunting) just defence against yotes/wolves? Going out on the trails tomorrow. I also got a bag of brass for future reloading, I need dies/bullets/powder, yet. Also grabbed some 410 #4 shot and 15 of 2 1/2 inch slugs.

 

[Pooker]

That gun would look cool as a Mannlicher... it would be an easy project to chop the forend at 45 degrees and extend it with rosewood or cocobolo... I agree with 1899... one full choke tube is all you need for a .410, it likely won't develope a consistently lethal pattern beyond 10-15 yards with a more open choke. I was shocked at the lethal distance of a .410 full choke gun, when a partner brought one along on a our annual bowhunting trip for moose... the area had a huge number of sharpies (which are large tough birds) and he was taking them down cleanly at 35-45 yards (we paced it off numerous times)... my son and I were shooting 12 gauge 870's.

p.s - squirrel season closes Dec. 15th... no need to rock the boat.

Ah, yes it would! I might have to look in to that...
And yes, upon second thought it definitely doesn't make much sense to use a more open choke. 35-45 yards? Wow. With what loads?
Also, duly noted, thank you.

The .357 Mag should do about 1800 fps with a 180gr and a 125gr bullet should be over 2100fps with top loads. The 2 1/2" Winchester Super-X slugs are listed at 1830fps for an 87.5gr slug.

Now I haven't owned/chronographed a .357 mag rifle (only a revolver), so those numbers from reloading data are not confirmed (niether is the claim for the slug). But I think you can see the point that the .410 slug is nowhere near the performance of the .357 Magnum.

Here's the data I pulled up:

Winchester Rifled Slug 2.5 inch shell

Chrono Testing 5 shots

Low Velocity:1792fps
Hight Velocity:1917fps
Average velocity: 1855fps
Extreme Spreed:124.0
Std. Deviation:44.84
Manufacture Spec: 1830fps
Measure Mass: 92.8gr
Manufacture Spec 1/5oz (87.5gr)
Calculated Muzzle Energy: 708.9ft-lbs

Notes: The lightest slug tested and the worst for velocity consistency of the three unmodified loads tested.

Source: http://mcb-homis.com/slug_410/slugtest/index.htm

Source: Ballistic AE iPhone app. I believe this is based from an 18 or 20" barrel.

got my M6 in the mail yesterday (22 Hornet over 410) she's a sweety. Made the journey into the big bad city to WSS & Cabela's and got the only ammo available in 22 Hornet, Rem 45 gr PSP and Win Super X 46 gr hollow point. Which ammo would be the best for defence (not hunting) just defence against yotes/wolves? Going out on the trails tomorrow. I also got a bag of brass for future reloading, I need dies/bullets/powder, yet. Also grabbed some 410 #4 shot and 15 of 2 1/2 inch slugs.

Ugh, so jealous I don't have a whole lot of .22 Hornet knowledge, but I'm sure that any load that's suitable for hunting dogs would be suitable for "defence" against them.
If you don't mind my asking, how much did you pay for the M6?

 

[hoytcanon]

Ah, yes it would! I might have to look in to that...
And yes, upon second thought it definitely doesn't make much sense to use a more open choke. 35-45 yards? Wow. With what loads?
Also, duly noted, thank you.

Winchester 3" #6's... A couple shots were even further than that... but I hesitate to write down the numbers... the hunting situation was actually pretty unique... when we flushed a flock the would sail off into the clear-cut... one or two of the birds would land in the top of one of the sgraggly spruce left standing by the skidders... we discovered that if we approached the grounded flock the tree top birds would raise the alarm and they would all flush out of range... so as luck would have it, one of our 870's still had a turkey choke screwed in from the spring turkey season... using high brass 3" #6's in our 12 gauge 870's, we would snipe the treetop birds from 60-70 yards (sounds like a long shot eh? It did to me too, except that every single one went down dead with one shot)... after the look-outs were down, we could approach within 15-20 yards and flush and wing shoot the remainder (obviously removed the turkey tube for an improved before wing shooting)... I'll say this for the sharpies... you better keep your eye on the exact spot the fall and get there fast... those suckers are camoflaged when they land belly down, and if they are wounded, they burrow like field mice! All-in-all, good times had by all! I checked Epps for another of those guns... the mannlicher idea caught my imagination and I will do one if I run into one of them... Epps had one that was marked as "sold" which was probably yours... they are holding two guns for me now, that I am picking up next week.