200 yrd chalenge/22 lr

My friend you are incorrect... Of course it does not go through the transonic zone... it starts out below it and as far as I know, no bullets "speed up" after they leave the barrel... but as for wind deflection, it is a bit of a brain twister, but you are NOT correct regarding subsonic ammo and wind deflection... I could give you the long explanation or a hundred web links, but I don't have time to explain it to you... so see the one link below and investigate further if you still don't understand or concur;

http://www.thewindisnotyourfriend.com/read/long-rifle-wind.html

Hardly scientific my friend and so we'll agree to disagree on this. This is an interesting read that outlines that the transonic range has signficant impact on the stability of projectiles unless otherwise compensated.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/External_ballistics

The transonic problem:

When the velocity of a rifle bullet fired at supersonic muzzle velocity approaches the speed of sound it enters the transonic region (about Mach 1.2–0.8). In the transonic region, the centre of pressure (CP) of most bullets shifts forward as the bullet decelerates. That CP shift affects the (dynamic) stability of the bullet. If the bullet is not well stabilized, it can not remain pointing forward through the transonic region (the bullets starts to exhibit an unwanted precession or coning motion that, if not damped out, can eventually end in uncontrollable tumbling along the length axis). However, even if the bullet has sufficient stability (static and dynamic) to be able to fly through the transonic region and stays pointing forward, it is still affected. The erratic and sudden CP shift and (temporary) decrease of dynamic stability can cause significant dispersion (and hence significant accuracy decay), even if the bullet's flight becomes well behaved again when it enters the subsonic region. This makes accurately predicting the ballistic behaviour of bullets in the transonic region very difficult. Further the ambient air density has a significant effect on dynamic stability during transonic transition. Though the ambient air density is a variable environmental factor, adverse transonic transition effects can be negated better by bullets traveling through less dense air, than when traveling through denser air. Because of this, marksmen normally restrict themselves to engaging targets within the supersonic range of the bullet used.[15]

15.^ Most spin stabilized projectiles that suffer from lack of dynamic stability have the problem near the speed of sound where the aerodynamic forces and moments exhibit great changes. It is less common (but possible) for bullets to display significant lack of dynamic stability at supersonic velocities. Since dynamic stability is mostly governed by transonic aerodynamics, it is very hard to predict when a projectile will have sufficient dynamic stability (these are the hardest aerodynamic coefficients to calculate accurately at the most difficult speed regime to predict (transonic)). The aerodynamic coefficients that govern dynamic stability: pitching moment, Magnus moment and the sum of the pitch and angle of attack dynamic moment coefficient (a very hard quantity to predict). In the end, there is little that modelling and simulation can do to accurately predict the level of dynamic stability that a bullet will have downrange. If a bullet has a very high or low level of dynamic stability, modelling may get the answer right. However, if a situation is borderline (dynamic stability near 0 or 2) modelling cannot be relied upon to produce the right answer. This is one of those things that have to be field tested and carefully documented.

Wind:

Wind has a range of effects, the first being the effect of making the bullet deviate to the side. From a scientific perspective, the "wind pushing on the side of the bullet" is not what causes wind drift. What causes wind drift is drag. Drag makes the bullet turn into the wind, keeping the centre of air pressure on its nose. This causes the nose to be cocked (from your perspective) into the wind, the base is cocked (from your perspective) "downwind." So, (again from your perspective), the drag is pushing the bullet downwind making bullets follow the wind.

A somewhat less obvious effect is caused by head or tailwinds. A headwind will slightly increase the relative velocity of the projectile, and increase drag and the corresponding drop. A tailwind will reduce the drag and the bullet drop. In the real world pure head or tailwinds are rare, since wind seldom is constant in force and direction and normally interacts with the terrain it is blowing over. This often makes ultra long range shooting in head or tailwind conditions difficult.
 
My friend you are incorrect... Of course it does not go through the transonic zone... it starts out below it and as far as I know, no bullets "speed up" after they leave the barrel... but as for wind deflection, it is a bit of a brain twister, but you are NOT correct regarding subsonic ammo and wind deflection... I could give you the long explanation or a hundred web links, but I don't have time to explain it to you... so see the one link below and investigate further if you still don't understand or concur;

http://www.thewindisnotyourfriend.com/read/long-rifle-wind.html

lol...if everyone read the stickies, you wouldn't have to post links. The first chart in the "Rimfire Ballistic charts" demonstrates your point, and it's been a sticky long before I joined in.

...that said/typed, it does seem counter intuitive without actually reading a bit about it.
 
Hardly scientific my friend and so we'll agree to disagree on this... This is one of those things that have to be field tested and carefully documented.

Many new shooters don't understand the physics of winds effect on a moving object, it can be complicated given profile, SD, BC etc... The fact that subsonic loads are LESS susceptible to wind than HV loads is a commonly observed and understood FACT among long range shooters... some people take alot of convincing because it really is counterintuitive... keep shooting and reading... get back to me when you see what I'm talking about.

lol...if everyone read the stickies, you wouldn't have to post links. The first chart in the "Rimfire Ballistic charts" demonstrates your point, and it's been a sticky long before I joined in.

...that said/typed, it does seem counter intuitive without actually reading a bit about it.

Yeah... there is alot of misunderstanding about the physics at work on bullets by wind and other environmental factors... "Symphony" is not the first to get it bassackwards... I didn't even know that info was in the stickies... good shooting.
 
I'm not going to bother to read about how different types of ammunition do or don't work better. It's .22 ammo, just buy a box of each and try them all.

I tried win 333, win target, CCI mini mag and CCI lead nose standard type stuff... The CCI lead nose grouped the best with the win 333 2nd place. I did not adjust the scope between types to see where they would impact with the same point of aim. Lead nose was 4" lower than the 333 at the same range.

No need to argue about it gentlemen, try it yourself and draw your own conclusions.
 
I'm not going to bother to read about how different types of ammunition do or don't work better. It's .22 ammo, just buy a box of each and try them all... No need to argue about it gentlemen, try it yourself and draw your own conclusions.

In 40+ years of shooting rimfires, I have shot hundreds of different loads in dozens of firearms... my conclusions have been drawn from experience... I'm not arguing, just stating fact.
 
Challenge accepted!
If you don't see me post any pictures, it's because my groups are really bad. i.e., don't expect me to post any pictures for quite a while.
 
looking for a new 22lr and can't decide on CZ, Savage MK II, or anything else. Come on guys start posting your success to this challenge so I can decide on which to buy.

I figure this is as good a way to pick a new 22 as any as I am not brand loyal.

DinoS
 
looking for a new 22lr and can't decide on CZ, Savage MK II, or anything else. Come on guys start posting your success to this challenge so I can decide on which to buy.

I figure this is as good a way to pick a new 22 as any as I am not brand loyal.

DinoS

Cz and dont look back.
 
I'll save myself the 200 yard walk and the 100 pack of CCI. Here's how I'd do..

840.jpg


For the win.. :cool:
 
If I can get my range extended out to 200 yards this spring I'd be interested to see how much I can embarass myself with this. 75 yards of trees and brush left to clear to get there.
 
C'mon you 22 rimfire shooters!!
On a calm day, with a very accurate 22 and ammo it likes, you should be able to stay under 2" at 200.

Note a couple of 5-shot groups here.

These were shot at 200 yards on a windless day. 2nd group is from my 40X, squares are ½".

Regards, Eagleye

22Rimfiretarget200ydscopy.jpg

Photo_2008_8_15_0_11_14_edited-1.jpg
 
C'mon you 22 rimfire shooters!!
On a calm day, with a very accurate 22 and ammo it likes, you should be able to stay under 2" at 200.

Note a couple of 5-shot groups here.

These were shot at 200 yards on a windless day. 2nd group is from my 40X, squares are ½".

Regards, Eagleye

22Rimfiretarget200ydscopy.jpg

Photo_2008_8_15_0_11_14_edited-1.jpg

Good lord! I suck!

Seeing as how I just gave my Marlin 81DL to my brother and his kids, leaving me only my 10/22 I have an excuse for not trying this challenge until I get my new bolt action .22 bought and setup.
 
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wow,started quite the fire here.I still have some premium subsonic will put them up against the super sonics.for those of us without 2500 dollar guns remember, this is a for fun contest.If your not hitting the target watch the dirt beside it and correct.
 
wow,started quite the fire here.I still have some premium subsonic will put them up against the super sonics.for those of us without 2500 dollar guns remember, this is a for fun contest.If your not hitting the target watch the dirt beside it and correct.

Thanks for starting this thread anything to do with accuracy at a long range with a .22 usually gets very entertaining,by the end there will be several one holers shot at 500 yards.
 
Thanks for starting this thread anything to do with accuracy at a long range with a .22 usually gets very entertaining,by the end there will be several one holers shot at 500 yards.


I have shot thousands of "one holers" at ranges from 100-1000 yards... It is the second shot that spoils the group!
 
If we don't get hit too hard by the damn snow tomorrow I will be going to the range on Thursday, I'll be trying this then. I'll take 2 of my 22's, my Cooey model 60 and my wife's Savage Mark II.
 
i totally rebuild my Ruger 10/22 this winter.
all new gun.
new bull barrel, new trigger group, new optics, stock, hammer, bolt, spring ect ect ect.

so once the snow melts a bit im gonna go out to the range and im IN for this!

046_zpscf678dd6.jpg


is there anything worse then dumping like $1,000 into a old gun and then having to wait 3-4 months before you can get into the range to test it!
 
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