H4227 and or H110 in an AR15?

jawsman

jawsman

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Anyone using H4227 in their AR15? Been thinking it might be a good powder to try in a really short barreled AR. For that matter H110 is very similar and be good in a short barrel. It pushes a 340gr bullet to ridiculously fast speeds in my 7.5" 454 casull revolver and my AR is only going to have a 8.5" barrel.

Anyone else play with these powders and care to give me some advice?

As always thanks in advance.
 
H110 seems way too fast to work in a 223 of any kind based on my experience. Just because it fires 340gr bullets out of a magnum handgun well doesn't mean it'll work well in a rifle cartridge with a MUCH lighter bullet because it has a similar length barrel. Have you found any load data for either of those powders in 223? There is data for 300 AAC blackout and 458 SOCOM using H110 because both of those have a much larger diameter bullet. Generally when you shrink bullet diameter you need to use a slower burning powder because you have such a smaller bearing surface on the base of the bullet to work against. There are FAR more variables than just barrel length to consider.

A quick Google search comes up with many people saying H110 will not work in a 223 but some have experimented with reduced power 223 loads in AR-15's using H4227. One site says 2000-2100fps using H4227 in an AR-15 but doesn't list what the recipe is. Others mention unreliable cycling unless you are using an extra light carrier and a CAR buffer (I have no idea what that is.)
 
Stick to published data from reputable sources. I have found varget to be an excellent powder for most light to medium calibers and while I agree H110 will work well in the 454 and I also use it in my 300blk I would not use it in my 223. There are some very good powders for the 223 but you won't find one powder that you can use on all rifles and pistols. Experimenting with powders can become dangerous and expensive when you start needing trips to the hospital and replacing ruined firearms.
If you insist on trying I would contact the powder manufacturer and ask for their advice.

Good luck and be safe
 
My understanding of short rifle barrels is that they will generally achieve the fastest velocities with the same powders that yield fastest velocities in standard (longer) length barrels. The muzzle blast is extreme though. You can use a lighter charge of a fast burning powder to reduce muzzle blast, but you will not achieve maximum velocity. Accuracy loads depend on individual rifles and bullets, and are less easy to predict.
Not really the same project, but I was told that 4227 would be a good powder for light bullet reduced speed loads in my .222 rem. instead of the somewhat slower powders like 4198 or 748 that I usually use. So far that powder has not shown me acceptable accuracy.
 
The AR15 requires powders of a specific burning rate to have enough port pressure to cycle the action and the powders you mention are TOO FAST.

I have Quickload software on my computer and went from 10inch barrel to a 16 inch barrel and the standard powders listed in the manuals are used only.

From 10 inches to 20 inches Whichester 748 powder was always at the top of the list, the info below is keeping the chamber pressure at .223 maximum of 55,000 psi.


Cartridge : .223 Rem. (SAAMI)
Bullet : .224, 55, Hornady FMJ-BT w/c 2267
Useable Case Capaci: 27.423 grain H2O = 1.781 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 2.200 inch = 55.88 mm
Barrel Length : 10.0 inch = 254.0 mm

Predicted Data for Indicated Charges of the Following Powders.
Matching Maximum Pressure: 54000 psi, or 372 MPa
or a maximum loading ratio or filling of 105 %

Winchester 748
Hodgdon H322
Hodgdon BL-C2
Hodgdon H335
Ramshot X-Terminator

Below is the WW748 pressure curve in red and bullet velocity in blue in a 10 inch barrel, as you can see the chamber pressure maxes out at approximately three inches of barrel length.



At 2.948 inches of barrel travel the max chamber pressure (Pmax) was 49,633 psi, and at 10 inches the max velocity was 2,500 fps.
 
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dogzilla said:
I use H335 in my 10". It burns clean and meters great so I can just throw the charge
Click to expand...

Same approximate velocity as 748 and less muzzle blast, approximatly 950 psi at the muzzle vs 1190 psi for 748.

W748 2605 fps 54,000 psi
H335 2586 fps 54,000 psi

10h335_zps55257ed1.jpg
 
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Ya I think this was one of those times I talked before I thought better of it. After reading web page after web page and using my own copy of Quickload software it was painfully obvious that neither H4227 of H110 is suitable AT ALL. Not sure what the hell I was thinking when I wrote that in retrospect.

I did make up some test loads using H4198, and am considering getting some Reloader 7 or 10X. They look like good viable powders to try as well.

With my previous AR (A Norc with a 14.5" barrel) I used a standard load using BLC-2. It worked great. I'm just trying to find a better powder for the smaller barrel in my new AR that will have the most efficient burn and give me the performance I expect. By consuming more of the powder in the short short barrel I will be reducing the muzzle blast coming out the end.

Later.....
 
I use Higginson powder surplus 223 powder,
cheap, 5% faster than h335, fired close to 1000 rounds no issues, meters fine.
 
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