Anyone else think economy rifles degrade brand?

Status
Not open for further replies.
hoytcanon said:
That is a very good thing for all of us... Don't worry, after a few years of shooting with economy guns, many of these new shooter's will develope an appetite for a more refined firearm... There will always be a demand for quality firearms... In my opinion, shooting sports would benefit if more experienced enthusiasts stopped making new shooters feel inferior for using the only weapon that they can afford... It would behoove us all to be kind and supportive... We don't have to shoot the entry level firearms ourselves.
Click to expand...

It only becomes a weapon when used as such.
 
JRodko said:
This thread gives off a pretty heavy "old boys club" vibe. "Economy rifles" that are appalling and insulting to hunting? Are you ####ing kidding me? I appreciate and understand the perks of spending a bit more money and getting superior quality.. to an extent. I have saved up a lot of money to buy my Benelli and I think it's 100% worth it in the way it fits and performs for me. Would I pay extra for fancy wood, engraving, etc.? Not a ####ing chance! I own a $700 Savage that I have tuned to my liking and it will easily shoot clover leafs when I do my part. Friends of mine shoot axis, 10's, vanguards, etc. that all shoot just fine even though they are "appalling" "economy" rifles. It's funny, we take #### and get snuffed at because we shoot budget guns, and we enjoy doing it. Who are you to insult us for wanting to enjoy the sport while having to pay for new families, homes, tuition, etc? I'm blessed that I'm in a good field and have kick-ass summer and part time work, but many aren't. Shouldn't you be supportive of something that allows newer people to get into the sport so that they can grow or at least maintain your member bases? Nobody's asking you to shoot a $300 which I'm sure would just be the worst thing in the world...but they allow young guys like me to partake. Was there not a time when you were happy to have anything to shoot? Or did you only ever settle for the best of the best because everything else was not worthy of your time?

As I'm sure you've realized by now, I'm a "young" shooter/hunter. I've been through a few ranges because of the "old boys club" mentality that I just can not stand. If you're going to throw #### my way without good reason, you can count on me throwing it back. And what's going to happen to all these clubs when the new shooters stop coming around and you don't have the people to support the place? That's what I thought.

Now that I'm done my rant I fully understand where you're coming from in certain aspects. A lot of guns could be made a LOT better. Not very much fun when you pinch pennies to buy a $400 rifle and it breaks within the first box. Also, there are a LOT of guys out there that should not be hunting or shooting, although more budget friendly options attract responsible people to the sport, they also attract a lot of the useless #######s that give the rest of us a bad name. Do you know how many times I've been out at the range and someone will come out with a $2000 gun and go through 10 boxes trying to get on paper before they decide the gun is a piece of garbage instead of NOT starting at 100 yards? A lot. The Range Officer might try to lend a hand after watching them struggle and what do they say? No thanks bud I can handle it. Give me a break.

Hope I haven't offended anyone too much..
Click to expand...

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Cool, the young'en's are making some noise here!!! Good to see! Great to see you stand up and say your pc. Welcome to the Men's World and the "old boys club".
 
Last edited:
My first shotgun was a Norinco HP-9. I still have it. I also have a Stevens 300 in .223. There's a couple other surplus rifles in my gun cabinet, neither of which were over $250. They're not the prettiest guns, or the most accurate. But they got me into shooting. And hunting. And before you say I'm another one of those 'fly-by-night' shooters/hunters, I easily sent more rounds downrange sighting in my firearms than I ever shot while actually hunting. I used to lay out in the 'back 40' of my parents' farm, punching paper, trying to eke out every little bit of accuracy from the Stevens that I could. And it was actually kind of impressive, for what I payed for it. I can't even say I consistently shot MOA (OH-NO!!), but it definitely kept me entertained.

I've taught everyone who was interested - friends, siblings, siblings friends, how to shoot safely. Always with the Norinco. I changed my moms perception of firearms by teaching my two little brothers the difference between using a gun the right way and the wrong way. Again, with my Norinco. And you are trying to fault gun companies for producing inexpensive firearms? If I hadn't been able to purchase the guns that I have, I probably would only own one firearm, maybe not even that many. Cost might have stopped me from starting.

Granted, I'm doing my best to not purchase a Norinco, or any other "budget" firearm again. Not because I have something against them. More due to the fact that I can appreciate higher end things, and I'm a firm believer in the fact that you get what you pay for. I'm also out of school, and have a steady income. However, I also know that if I don't end up being able to buy a CZ 452 (some might still call that a economy gun), or an 870 Wingmaster, or what ever else you feel like mentioning, my Norinco and Stevens will continue to shoot fairly straight, usually with no more drama than a gun that someone spent a small fortune on.
 
Maximum said:
I want guns to exist at a minimum of 1:1 ratio with knives.
Click to expand...

I better buy some more knives then.

I personally have never been able to justify spending the kind of money it takes to get into what I would consider a new upper end rifle. While there are a couple lower end firearms in my gunrack I've so far kept them to strictly utilitarian purposes like the 17HMR Mossberg piece of crap I bought for the kids to shoot at the range while letting the big guns cool off.
I hate that gun; it reeks of cheapness and unreliability the same as a Made In China crescent wrench.
That said I wouldn't look down my nose at somebody else who chooses to buy cheap. Like others have mentioned I would recommend a good look at the used gunracks as it has served me well over the years.
 
IMO its not the accuracy thats the problem with the economy guns, its the feel, ergonmics, and quality of build. If you like hunting with a 2x4, go for it. I dont. If you like ab olt that needs a winch to pull it out, good for you. I dont
 
If I was on a small budget, I would go with a used 700, or a used tikka, or a new 700 SPS. There are also great prices on the older Vanguards that dealers are clearing out. I would never be desperate enough to buy a 710/770.
 
Lots of hunters cut thier first tag using cheap guns made by Mauser, enfueld and Springfield.

Those cheap guns aren't so cheap anymore and if they are , it's because they are worn out and abused. Cheap guns serve a purpose, stop being a snob.
 
Yet another stroke the ego thread.

It's funny that the folks that can afford higher end equipment think lesser of the lower end equipment and the people that use it.

Drop the attitude , remember you started somewhere and mentor someone in the field, if it isn't above you. ;)
 
The main issue I have with "economy" rifles is as a hand loader I like to have a stout rifle that doesn't feel like its going to come apart if I push the envelope. It's not stroking the ego or what ever else has been assumed. If companies large percentage of sales come from these I think it proves what people want in a rifle. The future doesn't look good
 
RatFink said:
What happened to every farm boy having a Cooey or a CIL back in the day that cost fractions of what a new gun is, even taking inflation into consideration? You have to start somewhere... not everyone can start off with some beautiful Sauer rifle as their first shooter.

I agree with the sentiment of buying the best rig you can afford. I am still just a student and dream of owning a $1k rifle, but re-checking my priorities, I think I would get just as much enjoyment out of a $500 rifle and have the other $500 to go golfing or to put it towards my trip to Europe this summer.
Click to expand...

Cooeys, Mausers, and so forth generally weren't as plastic as possible and I bet you anything a cheap Mauser from 1943 will still be running when the Ruger Americans' plastic stocks have failed from UV and freezing and no replacements are available etc. My beef with princess auto level guns from major manufacturers is quality is available cheaply already. Look at the price of a Ruger Hawkeye, and then their American, I'm only guessing but I bet it's barely more than 300 bucks. There is nobody I've ever met that hunts, so broke that they can't wait the one extra month to buy a better rifle. If it was my son saving up I'd encourage him to do the same. This all said, I like quality tools.
 
If companies large percentage of sales come from these I think it proves what people want in a rifle. The future doesn't look good
Click to expand...

I haven't seen many new 710/770s showing up at the range, and for every one that I do see, I see several 700s. To me that indicates that the average consumer isn't overly impressed with the 710/770.
 
Try the old fasioned idea of "saving up for something" and you'd be surprised what you can get. When the price of a new gun cant even cover the cost of a decent barrel blank, there are some nasty corners being cut.

Junk is junk, no matter how much its on sale.
 
Last edited:
I own everything from a TC Encore to $6000 Custom rifles they all have there place. I put a midrange scope on the Encore and my Daughter in law borrows it for the hunting season. With hand loads it shoot 3/4" groups all day. The good thing is they don't take care of it I don't worry about it.
 
Seems to me that most of the more experienced hunters tend to agree, save up and buy something worth a little more, likely to last and the younger crowd tend to be really upset I could even mention such a thing. Interesting. For the record I am not a rich old boy who strokes his sauer everytime out, but rather a young father who enjoys busting bucks with my Remington 750 .35 whelen ($550 off EE) or shooting coyotes with my CZ 527 .223 ($700 from EE) or shooting bears with my Ruger M77 .338 laminated stainless ($750 from EE). These are the types of rifles I own so I do not imply that I am any better than the next guy but I will say that any of these choices would be worth the time to save a few more dollars towards.
 
emerson said:
Bull####. Hunting isn't a country club with a minimum bank balance required for membership. I challenge anyone to outshoot the abilities of most of these "economy" rifles while in a standing position (most common hunting shot). If the decent accuracy isn't what is required for hunting, are you suggesting that rifles should be judged by "fondleability"? By your logic no one should be allowed to drive a Sunfire, Focus, or any Kia model.

The only quality rifle is a Vanguard????? Elitest posts like this are self administered "tummy rubs".
Click to expand...

I agree. I found the initial statement very offensive and arrogant.
 
Longwalker said:
I'd much rather buy an old but still good rifle that was made with skill, care and attention to detail, or just buy a new European arm that was built with no compromises.
Click to expand...
I feel exactly the same way about shotguns. I'll buy an old Wingmaster instead of a new Express or 887, a used Beretta or Browning instead of one of the new Turkish delights that are flooding the market at bargain basement prices.

Some of the cheap rifles and shotguns on the market are a sad testament to the North American fetish for cheaper instead of better but they do serve a purpose. It is better to have a new shooter at the range with the most God-forsaken excuse of a gun than sitting at home with his thumb up his ass. When he's at the range we should let him shoot our guns so he gets a taste of the good stuff, begins to understand the difference and aspires to something better as his finances permit.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top Bottom