Anyone else think economy rifles degrade brand?

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I am the first to say buy the best rig you can afford, and for everyone that will be different depending on there stage in life. I see that the bean counters have cheapened most US made firearms to some degree right across the board. But the new eco-rifle allow youths to save there summer job money to buy there first big game rifle, something in my day that was impossible as a used LEE-ENFIELD was your only option? My nephew bought a 30-06 AXIS for $400 with sights and he can shoot clover leafts at 80 yards standing with the first three shots out the barrel with low grade federal 180gr soft points! I like the classic older guns, BRNO/CZ,STEYR,MAUSER,REMINGTON ARMS, MERKLE,SAKO, and pre saftey Rugers.
I hope the AXIS makes a great hunter and shooter of my nephew, then he will get a nice vintage WInchester SUPER GRADE that he then can appreciate! One mans opinion, Dale Z!
 
Remington actually started out building economy rifles back in the '50's. The 721 & 722 were plane-jane ( but well built) working rifles that retailed about 1/3 less than an equivalent model 70 The 721/722 evolved into the 700 in 1962, just about the time Winchester decided to down-grade the M70.

The quality of firearms peaked around 1938- since then, with a few exceptions, manufacturers have looked for ways to make things cheaper, not better.

I also sometimes wonder if we have a generation of shooters who don't understand what quality is. Buddy from work just got into hunting a year or so ago. I tried to steer him towards a good used gun, but he bot a Savage and a Mossberg instead. Since then he's picked up a few older guns as well, a savage .22 and a lee enfield. He admitted to me the other day that he likes shooting the older stuff better.
 
I will never buy one of those plasticrap economy rifles. Why would anyone go and waste $400 on some piece of junk when they can go out and spend $300 on a quality Mauser action (m96, of so many flavors) that will last a lifetime? It just doesn't make sense to me.
 
Blastattack said:
Why would anyone go and waste $400 on some piece of junk when they can go out and spend $300 on a quality Mauser action (m96, of so many flavors) that will last a lifetime? It just doesn't make sense to me.
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Some of the newer, inexpensive ones will last a lifetime. A co-worker went and bought himself a new Remington 710/770 in 30-06 about 5 years ago, against my advice. We buried him last year.
 
Some eat ribeye at the Keg and some eat quarter pounders at McDonald's...

Who do you think represents the single largest McD's group??? I would suggest that it is "young people"... Students and youth that are just starting out... Cash money is hard to come by for these people... Manufacturers are making economy products for profit... But they are also making equipment accessible to young people... The future of shooting sports is in the hands of the generations to come... Cheaper guns get more people involved in shooting sports... That is a very good thing for all of us... Don't worry, after a few years of shooting with economy guns, many of these new shooter's will develope an appetite for a more refined weapon... There will always be a demand for quality weapons... In my opinion, shooting sports would benefit if more experienced enthusiasts stopped making new shooters feel inferior for using the only weapon that they can afford... It would behoove us all to be kind and supportive... We don't have to shoot the entry level weapons ourselves.
 
shorttrac said:
Maybe I am alone here but since the remington 710 there have been many "economy" rifles to follow suit such as the Axis, 770, American and now even Browning has one. Remington introduced the 710 and 770 I was appalled by the cheapness and could not believe anyone would want this sort of junk to save a few hundred bucks. I and many others now look at remington rifles and immediately think of these rifles and have no faith in the quality of any rifle made by them. Another thing I have noticed is the influx of fly by night hunters buying these things the day before the season because they are "sighted in right out of the box" and no shooting is required. It seems to me that the sport of hunting has been cheapened by this as no more do people have to invest a decent amount of time and money to ensure only people with a genuine interest in the sport pursue it. Instead we get guys who just try it out because of the low investment and bragging rights of having a magnum rifle. Now with Browning having an economy rifle the amount of browning symbols all over everything is going to skyrocket and some of these people may actually own a Browning. I realize that these are great shooters but thats where it ends. I firmly believe that the only quality ecomomy rifle is a vanguard and even those are not real economy anymore. Sorry maybe I got to much time on my hands today so I will end my rant. Agree or disagree I appreciate your replies.
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Well lets see. You used to go down to the local hardware store and buy an old 303 for $20 and that didn't seem to ruin humanity, but somehow a $300 rifle that shots decently will. As far as I'm concered your "FLy by night hunters" as you call them are an oppertunity to get someone else in the sport. That means one more on our side.
What a bunch of elitest bull@#$!
 
I personally feel the cheap gun route is a short term profit thing. The young shooters who need affordable rifles now and want to upgrade later, do you think that same kid dreams of a 700 shooting his 770 not likely. Everyone seems to have a different idea of quality but I feel ruger m77, a-bolts, even some 700's, savage 114, blr's, cz's are quality. Crazy enough I own all these and my boys are going to shoots these until they decide to buy their own which I doubt will be an "economy" plastic fantastic job
 
shorttrac said:
I personally feel the cheap gun route is a short term profit thing. The young shooters who need affordable rifles now and want to upgrade later, do you think that same kid dreams of a 700 shooting his 770 not likely. Everyone seems to have a different idea of quality but I feel ruger m77, a-bolts, even some 700's, savage 114, blr's, cz's are quality. Crazy enough I own all these and my boys are going to shoots these until they decide to buy their own which I doubt will be an "economy" plastic fantastic job
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Good for you... But a lot of kids don't grow up in hunting families... They don't have the benefit of a family investing in their hunting future... They have to do it all on their own or with a mentor... Often without affordable equipment they might never enter the sport and subsequently learn to love it...
 
So some guy who is just getting into hunting and looking for a start is now a low life for not buying some $3000 Kimber? Let me guess, your first car was a Bentley, no, maybe a Mclearen? Grow up.
 
I'm not sure what the attraction to the cheapy rifles is for our buddy. He has about 10 rifles and shot guns at this time. All are in the lower end ball park (except 1). He does a wee bit of buy/sell/trade, but not much. He doesn't even consider buying a high end quality firearm. We just can't put a finger on the reason. He loves guns. He's even self teaching himself gun smithing and practicing it. He's not broke, his wife makes almost twice the coin the that he does. He's not hen pecked. He's got a diesel pick up truck and a jeep and they have 3 snowmobiles. But yet he is so attracted to the Stevens, the Mossberg's, the Marlin's, the Savage's, the Enfield's, the SKS's etc etc. It seems anything with a low price tag! He did fall off the wagon once and bought a Browning BLR! God behold him dearly for that! He just spent the week end with us, and he just left for home. We went to CTA yesterday and guess which end of the gun rack he was glued to? Yep, the cheapy section! He wants a 17 HMR real bad, there was a Savage there "on sale", but I guess not quite enough off the reg price for him to buy it! Is he just a cheap guy at heart or is there an explanation that we just can't see??? Please put our minds at ease, if you can explain it.

Edit: I'm not knocking anyone for buying only what they can afford. By all means, get what you can and get into the sport right-o-way. There is something available for everybody and I'm glad about that. I'm just wondering about our Bud, who could buy anything that is out there, but he's so attracted to the low end stuff and he won't tell us why! He just smiles when we ask him wtf, man, why???
 
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Kelly Timoffee said:
So, what would happen if someones Cooper or Kimber or Weatherby couldn't duplicate these results?


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Is that supposed to be good?!
 
hmm i how the op calls them economy rifles. Sako has done the same thing when they brought out the tikka. Its very hard to find anyone that has shoot one that dont love them. All stick with my low budget junky tikka becuase its awsome.
 
This thread gives off a pretty heavy "old boys club" vibe. "Economy rifles" that are appalling and insulting to hunting? Are you ####ing kidding me? I appreciate and understand the perks of spending a bit more money and getting superior quality.. to an extent. I have saved up a lot of money to buy my Benelli and I think it's 100% worth it in the way it fits and performs for me. Would I pay extra for fancy wood, engraving, etc.? Not a ####ing chance! I own a $700 Savage that I have tuned to my liking and it will easily shoot clover leafs when I do my part. Friends of mine shoot axis, 10's, vanguards, etc. that all shoot just fine even though they are "appalling" "economy" rifles. It's funny, we take #### and get snuffed at because we shoot budget guns, and we enjoy doing it. Who are you to insult us for wanting to enjoy the sport while having to pay for new families, homes, tuition, etc? I'm blessed that I'm in a good field and have kick-ass summer and part time work, but many aren't. Shouldn't you be supportive of something that allows newer people to get into the sport so that they can grow or at least maintain your member bases? Nobody's asking you to shoot a $300 which I'm sure would just be the worst thing in the world...but they allow young guys like me to partake. Was there not a time when you were happy to have anything to shoot? Or did you only ever settle for the best of the best because everything else was not worthy of your time?

As I'm sure you've realized by now, I'm a "young" shooter/hunter. I've been through a few ranges because of the "old boys club" mentality that I just can not stand. If you're going to throw #### my way without good reason, you can count on me throwing it back. And what's going to happen to all these clubs when the new shooters stop coming around and you don't have the people to support the place? That's what I thought.

Now that I'm done my rant I fully understand where you're coming from in certain aspects. A lot of guns could be made a LOT better. Not very much fun when you pinch pennies to buy a $400 rifle and it breaks within the first box. Also, there are a LOT of guys out there that should not be hunting or shooting, although more budget friendly options attract responsible people to the sport, they also attract a lot of the useless #######s that give the rest of us a bad name. Do you know how many times I've been out at the range and someone will come out with a $2000 gun and go through 10 boxes trying to get on paper before they decide the gun is a piece of garbage instead of NOT starting at 100 yards? A lot. The Range Officer might try to lend a hand after watching them struggle and what do they say? No thanks bud I can handle it. Give me a break.

Hope I haven't offended anyone too much..
 
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Boulevard said:
So some guy who is just getting into hunting and looking for a start is now a low life for not buying some $3000 Kimber? Let me guess, your first car was a Bentley, no, maybe a Mclearen? Grow up.
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Nobody said you have to spend a lot of money, only that it shouldn't be spend on garbage. For $400 you can buy a fantastic used firearm that was made to a quality standard, as opposed to the junk today that is made exclusively to a price-point. I have not personally spent more than $400 to buy any of my firearms, yet my safe contains an FN Browning, Winchester, Enfield, Ross and three Remingtons. My advice is simply to spend your money wisely on a quality product, and not to buy something that is cheaply made to poor standards.
 
I really don't think so. I don't think a Chrysler 300 is a piece of crap because they also sold the Neon. These budget rifles work pretty good out of the box. The actions and barrels are generally from the same pile. just the finish and the things they bolt to them are different. The stock may be crap and the scope worse but with the right ammo most of them will shoot about MOA.

I'm glad to see you think the guy working at the lumber yard doesn't rate the right to go hunting. Just speaking retoricly, but do really you have any idea what it's like to live on something like min wage? I use to make a good buck on the highway but got burnt out doing the bidding of a bunch of criminal azzholes I'll collectivly call the transport industry. I'm quite happy that the people at Savage don't share your feelings. If I feel I need to get another centerfire rifle I'll likely be settling for a Stevens.

As far as making it sound like gun owners with little money are a hazard...by far the most retarded things I see at the range are when hunters come to zero their boom sticks. In fact all the utterly idiotic things I've seen were done by hunters, and not new ones either (hey buddy, the target is down there, that way is town). Just to go a step further every Axis owner I've met in the last year has been a new shooter who is, gasp!, showing up to the range often to become a good shot in reality not just in his mind.

Perhaps the question shouldn't be is the brand cheapend by budget models but could they make the budget models just a wee bit better and charge us the $2 more it cost them to put a better plastic stock on it, or another $25 dollars so I can actually focus the reticle on that Simmons scope.
 
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Blastattack, Exactly what I was thinking. My most expensive rifle is worth maybe 1000$. Just for the info from some disgruntled fans my first guns were an 870 pump and smith and Wesson 1500 30-06 that cost 800$ that I saved from delivering papers and cutting lawns.
 
This thread makes me laugh!!! I'm willing to bet that 9 of 10 posters that say "don't buy cheap rifles" are actually the same people that buy cheap American cars and trucks because the higher quality Japanese badges are too expensive for them! It's a bit of a double standard is it not?!!
 
What happened to every farm boy having a Cooey or a CIL back in the day that cost fractions of what a new gun is, even taking inflation into consideration? You have to start somewhere... not everyone can start off with some beautiful Sauer rifle as their first shooter.

I agree with the sentiment of buying the best rig you can afford. I am still just a student and dream of owning a $1k rifle, but re-checking my priorities, I think I would get just as much enjoyment out of a $500 rifle and have the other $500 to go golfing or to put it towards my trip to Europe this summer.
 
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