9x21

Get in touch with an OLD IPSC shooter. Back in the late 1980's - before double stack - high cap 1911 style pistols ( Para and STI) came out - since IPSC rules prevented 9 mm Parabellum from being loaded to MAJOR power factor and used in High cap CZ's - the trick was to use 9x21 - because IPSC rules did not cover that SPECIFC caliber - and it could be done by simply reaming out a standard 9x19 barrel with a 9x21 chamber reamer. When Para came on the market with 20 round .38 Super guns - the 9x21 advantage was lost. I tried the 9x21 in a Para and that was a DISASTER - when 20 rounds of tapered cases were stacked in the high cap mag - the first 10 nose dived into the barrel ramp!!! Changed to .38 Super straight walls - problem solved. I could MAYBE go back and find my old loading data and a buddy of mine has a pail full of 9x21 brass. Considering all this can I ask - why 9x21?
 
By same bullet I meant identical operating pressure and identical internal case capacity; or at least that is what the wiki article seems to be saying although it is a little sparse. If I understand correctly here this would mean regular 9mm luger load data could be used?

Either way, learn something new every day I guess...
 
Colt .45 said:
By same bullet I meant identical operating pressure and identical internal case capacity; or at least that is what the wiki article seems to be saying although it is a little sparse. If I understand correctly here this would mean regular 9mm luger load data could be used?

The only thing IDENTICAL between what we know today as the 9mm, AKA 9mm Parabellum, AKA 9mm Luger, AKA 9x19 and the 9x21 is - they both use the same .355 bullet and same size primer - the case capacity is obviously different due to the 2mm loger case therefore operating pressures would be different.

Both calibers since being rimless headspace on the case mouth.

Certainly 9mm Luger loading data could be used as a starting point. As I recall Starline made the brass and we shot MAJOR IPSC class in ramped fully supported barrels.
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I shot 9X21 for years. I was a case designed around prohibitions in certain European countries on civilian use of military calibers (9X19), and it was set up to run in platforms designed around regular 9mm length rounds. In factory loadings it was the same OAL as 9X19 but since I was shooting major loads out of my 19/2011 Open guns, factory loadings weren't applicable in my case. I was loading to 1.122" oal. All dimensions accept the case length were the same as 9X19 so you could use 9mm loading dies. I eventually went back to .38 Supercomp for the increased reliability of the straight walled case.

If you aren't running a compensator and don't need the extra gas volume you can indeed load 9X21 to exactly the same spec. as 9X19.
 
superted said:
Get in touch with an OLD IPSC shooter. Back in the late 1980's - before double stack - high cap 1911 style pistols ( Para and STI) came out - since IPSC rules prevented 9 mm Parabellum from being loaded to MAJOR power factor and used in High cap CZ's - the trick was to use 9x21 - because IPSC rules did not cover that SPECIFC caliber - and it could be done by simply reaming out a standard 9x19 barrel with a 9x21 chamber reamer. When Para came on the market with 20 round .38 Super guns - the 9x21 advantage was lost. I tried the 9x21 in a Para and that was a DISASTER - when 20 rounds of tapered cases were stacked in the high cap mag - the first 10 nose dived into the barrel ramp!!! Changed to .38 Super straight walls - problem solved. I could MAYBE go back and find my old loading data and a buddy of mine has a pail full of 9x21 brass. Considering all this can I ask - why 9x21?
Click to expand...
..................actually some how I own now a tanfoglio/springfield ex ipsc open gun in 9x21, that's why
 
relliott said:
I shot 9X21 for years. I was a case designed around prohibitions in certain European countries on civilian use of military calibers (9X19), and it was set up to run in platforms designed around regular 9mm length rounds. In factory loadings it was the same OAL as 9X19 but since I was shooting major loads out of my 19/2011 Open guns, factory loadings weren't applicable in my case. I was loading to 1.122" oal. All dimensions accept the case length were the same as 9X19 so you could use 9mm loading dies. I eventually went back to .38 Supercomp for the increased reliability of the straight walled case.

If you aren't running a compensator and don't need the extra gas volume you can indeed load 9X21 to exactly the same spec. as 9X19.
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...................... good info sr, I have 2 hole comp in that gun
 
I just picked up a P9 factory comp 9x21 as well. Figured it would be fun and different.

I've read a couple places that you can run 9mm para factory ammo through it. But I still do not fully understand this all as I do not yet have the gun.
 
Jeff000 said:
I just picked up a P9 factory comp 9x21 as well. Figured it would be fun and different.

I've read a couple places that you can run 9mm para factory ammo through it. But I still do not fully understand this all as I do not yet have the gun.
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You can run 9mm Para through the gun but because the headspace is to the mouth of the case, you can get the occasional misfire as all that is holding the cartridge in the chamber is the extractor.

Also, if your 9x21 is set up for old 175 power factor major loads you may see problems with cycling even with +P.
 
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