So I called Springfield Armory today

[WAREWOLF]

I bout an M1A recently from EE and it is a fantastic piece. I wanted to know when it was made and what the chamber was cut at the factory to know once and for all what this gun was made to shoot.

The reciver is stamped 7.62x51. But i know that some USA manufacturers will have a commercial chamber with a NATO stamp and vise versa. So I called Springfield I wanted to go to the source.

And with all the confidence in the world the rep at Springfield explained to me that it is stamped 7.62x51 but the chamber is cut to a true .308 win chamber and is completely safe to fire .308 win in this M1A. They also told me that after 1974 all m1A's after 1974 are .308 win chambers. The only ones with a 7.62x51 chamber are pre 1974 which are the true M14's made for the military with full auto capability.

They were also able to go to their archives to confirm for me the build date of my M1A and it was October of 1980 and is .308 win chamber.

I love this M1A and it is in the best shape I have ever seen 32 year old gun ever be in.

I hope this helps anyone that has been wondering the same as me.

 

[Ardent]

I have one of similar vintage, and my goodness does it shoot. Just out last night sighting in and I've never had an iron sighted semi group as tight, it's changing my opinions on M14 accuracy.

 

[WAREWOLF]

I have one of similar vintage, and my goodness does it shoot. Just out last night sighting in and I've never had an iron sighted semi group as tight, it's changing my opinions on M14 accuracy.

Same with my own I was so surprised how great it shoots and tight groups for a semi as well it is for sure my favorite gun in my safe.

 

[BadAsMo]

That whole .308 win vs 7.62x51 “problem” is the biggest bunch of horse manure ever to gain such a following.

There are slight dimensional differences between them but certainly nothing that would prevent complete unencumbered interchangeability. The only reason for the differences in the chamber is to allow more space between the loaded round and the chamber for contaminants such as water, dirt or sand for the military.

The basic theory behind reloading is after firing the case needs to be resized to fit the chamber again so it can be loaded again without interference. Resizing however is a relative term. Some guys perform a full body resize every time while target shooters prefer to resize the absolute minimum amount to ensure perfect brass to chamber match. The problem however with the target shooter approach when running hot loads is shooting in the rain. Once those minimally resized cases get wet and the water ends up in the chamber, the hot load which was not developed for the reduced chamber space (including water) is now an over pressure round. This is a situation the military does not want to replicate, so they design things to ensure ammo fits loosely in the chamber, thus ensuring it is safe to fire when wet or muddy.

Since the army does not care about reloading, the over stretched brass after firing does not concern them. There are also not looking for 1/8 moa groups so sloppy ammo is of no concern to them.

To sum all this up, the military chambers are just made to be sloppy, but the ammo between .308 win vs 7.62x51 is absolutely completely interchangeable.

Arguing the above is simply a declaration of ignorance.

 

[WAREWOLF]

That whole .308 win vs 7.62x51 “problem” is the biggest bunch of horse manure ever to gain such a following.

There are slight dimensional differences between them but certainly nothing that would prevent complete unencumbered interchangeability. The only reason for the differences in the chamber is to allow more space between the loaded round and the chamber for contaminants such as water, dirt or sand for the military.

The basic theory behind reloading is after firing the case needs to be resized to fit the chamber again so it can be loaded again without interference. Resizing however is a relative term. Some guys perform a full body resize every time while target shooters prefer to resize the absolute minimum amount to ensure perfect brass to chamber match. The problem however with the target shooter approach when running hot loads is shooting in the rain. Once those minimally resized cases get wet and the water ends up in the chamber, the hot load which was not developed for the reduced chamber space (including water) is now an over pressure round. This is a situation the military does not want to replicate, so they design things to ensure ammo fits loosely in the chamber, thus ensuring it is safe to fire when wet or muddy.

Since the army does not care about reloading, the over stretched brass after firing does not concern them. There are also not looking for 1/8 moa groups so sloppy ammo is of no concern to them.

To sum all this up, the military chambers are just made to be sloppy, but the ammo between .308 win vs 7.62x51 is absolutely completely interchangeable.

Arguing the above is simply a declaration of ignorance.

Yes I belive it this to be correct that is why I called them. there is so much out there on the RELIABLE Source such as the internet (LOL) about it not being safe. I am no expert but I have a good knowlage about this stuff.

I posted this to help people realize that if you are not sure just call the maker of the gun and ask them they will know for sure.

My gun is chambered .308 win like all other M1A's so it can interchange with nato spec ammo. I am Happy

 

[POMLT3-08]

That whole .308 win vs 7.62x51 “problem” is the biggest bunch of horse manure ever to gain such a following.

There are slight dimensional differences between them but certainly nothing that would prevent complete unencumbered interchangeability. The only reason for the differences in the chamber is to allow more space between the loaded round and the chamber for contaminants such as water, dirt or sand for the military.

The basic theory behind reloading is after firing the case needs to be resized to fit the chamber again so it can be loaded again without interference. Resizing however is a relative term. Some guys perform a full body resize every time while target shooters prefer to resize the absolute minimum amount to ensure perfect brass to chamber match. The problem however with the target shooter approach when running hot loads is shooting in the rain. Once those minimally resized cases get wet and the water ends up in the chamber, the hot load which was not developed for the reduced chamber space (including water) is now an over pressure round. This is a situation the military does not want to replicate, so they design things to ensure ammo fits loosely in the chamber, thus ensuring it is safe to fire when wet or muddy.

Since the army does not care about reloading, the over stretched brass after firing does not concern them. There are also not looking for 1/8 moa groups so sloppy ammo is of no concern to them.

To sum all this up, the military chambers are just made to be sloppy, but the ammo between .308 win vs 7.62x51 is absolutely completely interchangeable.

Arguing the above is simply a declaration of ignorance.

I'm finally glad to see someone say what a lot of us have known for years. I also have a vintage Springfield M1A and I interchange .308 and 7.62x51 NATO on a regular basis and have for years. Same goes for a lot of my shooting buddies.
I love my M1A, it's one of my favourite rifles to shoot. Mine is incredibly accurate as well, I'm a huge fan of the iron sights.

 

[LeeEnfieldNo.4_mk1]

After only ever handling Norinco M-14's, I was absolutely shocked after handling a Springfield M1A when I was at a sport shop on a day trip down across the border. the Action was so smooth in comparison to the Norc. Anyone who says the Springfields are not worth the extra money has probably not handled one. Would love to shoot one to see how much better the triggers are as well.

Would love to buy one one of these days.

 

[Hungry]

Didn't I tell ya before? Yer dicks are safe! ha ha ha ha

You know how people are on the Innernet?

If you shoot .308 in a NATO chamber, yer #### will fall off !

Cheers,
Barney

 

[C77]

That whole .308 win vs 7.62x51 “problem” is the biggest bunch of horse manure ever to gain such a following.

There are slight dimensional differences between them but certainly nothing that would prevent complete unencumbered interchangeability. The only reason for the differences in the chamber is to allow more space between the loaded round and the chamber for contaminants such as water, dirt or sand for the military.

The basic theory behind reloading is after firing the case needs to be resized to fit the chamber again so it can be loaded again without interference. Resizing however is a relative term. Some guys perform a full body resize every time while target shooters prefer to resize the absolute minimum amount to ensure perfect brass to chamber match. The problem however with the target shooter approach when running hot loads is shooting in the rain. Once those minimally resized cases get wet and the water ends up in the chamber, the hot load which was not developed for the reduced chamber space (including water) is now an over pressure round. This is a situation the military does not want to replicate, so they design things to ensure ammo fits loosely in the chamber, thus ensuring it is safe to fire when wet or muddy.

Since the army does not care about reloading, the over stretched brass after firing does not concern them. There are also not looking for 1/8 moa groups so sloppy ammo is of no concern to them.

To sum all this up, the military chambers are just made to be sloppy, but the ammo between .308 win vs 7.62x51 is absolutely completely interchangeable.

Arguing the above is simply a declaration of ignorance.

"The thing about quotes on the internet is that you cannot confirm their validity." - Abraham Lincoln

Having said that, here is some fairly good info:

http://w ww.thegunzone.com/30cal.html

 

[BadAsMo]

"The thing about quotes on the internet is that you cannot confirm their validity." - Abraham Lincoln

Having said that, here is some fairly good info:

http://w ww.thegunzone.com/30cal.html

All that article does is confirm my point. The military round is a slop fit with intentionally low chamber pressure for safety when military ammo is wet or muddy.

 

[shooterman]

after only ever handling norinco m-14's, i was absolutely shocked after handling a springfield m1a when i was at a sport shop on a day trip down across the border. The action was so smooth in comparison to the norc. Anyone who says the springfields are not worth the extra money has probably not handled one. Would love to shoot one to see how much better the triggers are as well.

Would love to buy one one of these days.

x 2 !

 

[WAREWOLF]

Hungry is correct. The reason I called Springfield is for this post. So that the info was coming from the source and not jet me some guy on the net.

 

[C77]

That whole .308 win vs 7.62x51 “problem” is the biggest bunch of horse manure ever to gain such a following.

There are slight dimensional differences between them but certainly nothing that would prevent complete unencumbered interchangeability. The only reason for the differences in the chamber is to allow more space between the loaded round and the chamber for contaminants such as water, dirt or sand for the military.

To sum all this up, the military chambers are just made to be sloppy, but the ammo between .308 win vs 7.62x51 is absolutely completely interchangeable.

All that article does is confirm my point. The military round is a slop fit with intentionally low chamber pressure for safety when military ammo is wet or muddy.

That article has a little more to say (emphasis mine):

"Firing .308 Winchester ammunition in a firearm specifically chambered for the 7.62mm NATO risks damage to the firearm and injury to the shooter."

"According to Ken at Clymer Tools, noted maker of headspace gauges, the problem isn't the round itself, it's the headspacing."

"It's entirely possible to chamber and have an accident with a .308 Winchester round in a rifle that would be safe for 7.62 X 51mm. A chamber in 7.62 that could barely close on a 7.62 NoGo could swallow a .308 Field gauge."

According to my desk reference: AMMO ENCYCLOPEDIA, 3rd Ed, the .308 is 1.7116 to the top of the shoulder and 2.015 to the case mouthwith a max pressure of 62,000 psi. pp. 519

7.62 NATO is 1.7141 to the front of the shoulder and 2.015 to the case mouth, with a max pressure of 50,000 psi. pp. 330

You are partly correct, but I think the answer is a little more complicated that to just state that everything is interchangeable. 12,000 psi beside your face can make a lot of difference.

 

[BadAsMo]

The answer is not complicated at all, if you actually have the slightest comprehension of what all those number mean and why there is a slight difference in practical terms.

It is not that the rifle firing the nato round is incapable of handling 308 pressures under normal clean conditions.

The nato round is just sloppy and under pressure for safety because when mud is added, the pressure will rise so as not to exceed the 308 pressures.

You can quote half the web sites on the internet that support this nonsense, that will never make it correct.

If you cannot comprehend the difference then please do not take up hand loading for your own safety.

 

[shooterman]

Didn't I tell ya before? Yer dicks are safe! ha ha ha ha

You know how people are on the Innernet?

If you shoot .308 in a NATO chamber, yer #### will fall off !

Cheers,
Barney

this whole #### thing is getting kinda creepy................really!

 

[C77]

The answer is not complicated at all, if you actually have the slightest comprehension of what all those number mean and why there is a slight difference in practical terms.

It is not that the rifle firing the nato round is incapable of handling 308 pressures under normal clean conditions.

The nato round is just sloppy and under pressure for safety because when mud is added, the pressure will rise so as not to exceed the 308 pressures.

You can quote half the web sites on the internet that support this nonsense, that will never make it correct.

If you cannot comprehend the difference then please do not take up hand loading for your own safety.

I'm sorry that you don't agree. There is not much reason to be insulting.

You have no idea what my background with firearms is, nor do you know how much ammunition I reload.

I simply pointed out that there are some differences and that there are some risks involved in interchanging these calibers. I cited some notable experts that just happen to agree with me.

If you don't agree, that's fine. You are still free to put what ever you want into your chamber. Just try to be polite about it. I'm happy to have a civil discussion on the matter, but not the usual CGN gutter fight.

 

[Ardent]

After only ever handling Norinco M-14's, I was absolutely shocked after handling a Springfield M1A when I was at a sport shop on a day trip down across the border. the Action was so smooth in comparison to the Norc. Anyone who says the Springfields are not worth the extra money has probably not handled one. Would love to shoot one to see how much better the triggers are as well.

Would love to buy one one of these days.

X3, buy American folks. They're actually on our side.

 

[CeeJay]

"The thing about quotes on the internet is that you cannot confirm their validity." - Abraham Lincoln

Having said that, here is some fairly good info:

http://w ww.thegunzone.com/30cal.html

That Lincoln fella was a wise man, wise before his time LOL.

I recently tried out some Federal 7.62x51MM ammo and worked just fine, in fact I might say the 308. stamped Norc liked it better then the winchester ammo I was using previous, and yes one day I would love to get my hands on a Springfield, so if anyone wants to lend me 2 grand feel free to drop me line, but for right now my slighlty tuned Norc will do just fine.

 

[WAREWOLF]

All I was trying to get across here is that Springfield armory had told me that the chamber that is cut into all M1A's are a .308 chamber even thow the reciver is stamped 7.62x39.

So because they are .308 they are safe to fire the .308 round.

I was not looking to start a #### session

 

[burnaby]

For full and useful information quote the price listed for the NORC M305 and the Springfield M1A.

No need to tell us the Chevy Corvette is better than the Chevy Cobalt.

Comparing apples and orange cause they are fruits from the same supermarket is silly

After only ever handling Norinco M-14's, I was absolutely shocked after handling a Springfield M1A when I was at a sport shop on a day trip down across the border. the Action was so smooth in comparison to the Norc. Anyone who says the Springfields are not worth the extra money has probably not handled one. Would love to shoot one to see how much better the triggers are as well.

Would love to buy one one of these days.