Rarest of the Rare

[mcpherson284]

Well, here is my couple contributions to this one. The first one is a Howa built M1-Carbine which built just prior to the Korean war and after the Korean war. They are not a commercial M-1 Carbine like the Universal or Auto Ordnance, but proper US Mil-Spec military issue Carbines. This is considered to be the rarest M-1 Carbine in the US because it is considered a a product of an American Property Military Surplus, regardless of the fact it was made in Japan and not the US. Roughly 10,000 were made of these Carbines, and I have heard infor that there are 12 registered in Canada.

There are a number of differences on these carbines though.. the first really interesting one is they were ALL built to M-2 Carbine standards. Minus the joy buzzer of course. From there, the front sights is held in place by a front sight key and pin. The distinctive twin stake marks on either side are specific to Howa.

The bayonet lug fits snugly over this area and is held in place by the key and a pin, similar to those used for the front sight. The bayonet lug is milled and the position of the bayonet lug is the same as the bayonet lug on the U.S. GI carbines that have them. The GI barrel band is interchangeable with the Howa barrel band and can replace the Howa bayonet lug.

The proper bayonets are marked "KIFFE / JAPAN"

the Barrels are "Howa Proof" marked

And, as said before, everything is Standard "M-2"

Sorry, as much as I tried, I was not able to get a clear picture of the US "Ordnance bomb" and "H M L" Howa Machinery, Ltd in the left side of slingwell.

M1C or USMC MC1 Garand anyone?

Yes, I know, the MC1 has the wrong Stith Kollmorgan on it, but you try and find an original USMC marked Kollmorgan!

And last.... and maybe a little least, something for the Rising Sun... no to use, or is it to throw at the Imperial Japanese Navy and Imperial Japanese Army?

Reising Model 50

Special note in the above picture. The "PM", (PM2 on some as well) on the barrel forward of the receiver, is the USCM proof mark for this particular piece. Serial number range for the USMC Reisings is 20,000-120,000. Roughly 120,000 combined total of Model 50 (solid stock) and model 55 (pistol grip/coat hanger folding stock. Yes it is that thin and flimsy) were made.

Special note in the above picture. This slot cut in the bottom of the fore grip is the cocking mechanism.

Above is a better view cocking mechanism.

 

[Claven2]

Here is the quote:

"I just said that officially sniper SVT's were produced only in Tula (38006 in 1941 and 14220 in 1942). But some number of Izzy and Podolsk (yes, Podolsk, not Kovrov, SVT's never were produced in Kovrov, it's a mistake) rifles were converted to snipers in army workshops during war. If they have lack of sniper rifles, they just take rifles with best accuracy, and add notch for mount fixing to them (because rails were allmost at all SVT issued in 1940-1941).
Some of such rifles were founded in ground at battlefields, so they certainly exist.
You could read more here, use Google translation, it's russian forum"
http://forum.guns.ru/forummessage/164/959884.html

If someone said it on a low-traffic forum, it MUST be true...

 

[twincamharley]

................

 

[dimon]

If someone said it on a low-traffic forum, it MUST be true...

Not necessary everything said on "high traffic" forum is true either...Just like "Kovrov SVT" myth etc. Here is the link to the plant in Kovrov: http://www.zid.ru/
There are phone numbers posted there, please feel free to call the plant and ask them about "Kovrov SVT's"

Sorry for off topic. There should be a separate thread about this...

 

[Coyote Ugly]

Here is the quote:

"I just said that officially sniper SVT's were produced only in Tula (38006 in 1941 and 14220 in 1942). But some number of Izzy and Podolsk (yes, Podolsk, not Kovrov, SVT's never were produced in Kovrov, it's a mistake) rifles were converted to snipers in army workshops during war. If they have lack of sniper rifles, they just take rifles with best accuracy, and add notch for mount fixing to them (because rails were allmost at all SVT issued in 1940-1941).
Some of such rifles were founded in ground at battlefields, so they certainly exist.
You could read more here, use Google translation, it's russian forum"


http://forum.guns.ru/forummessage/164/959884.html

Linky from Russia no Worky?

403 Forbidden

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nginx/1.3.10

 

[CanadianAR]

I emailed the arsenal. So i guess we will see what and if they reply

 

[dimon]

I emailed the arsenal. So i guess we will see what and if they reply

Apparently they were flooded with phone calls some time ago about "Kovrov SVT"...

 

[agentcq]

Not necessary everything said on "high traffic" forum is true either...Just like "Kovrov SVT" myth etc. Here is the link to the plant in Kovrov: http://www.zid.ru/
There are phone numbers posted there, please feel free to call the plant and ask them about "Kovrov SVT's"

Sorry for off topic. There should be a separate thread about this...

Agreed. Someone with more knowledge and power than me should import these into a new thread. It could be true? I know many DP28's had an arsenal marking of an arrow within an oval - very similar to the wide oval stamp on SVT's. Whether DP's were made at Kovrov or Podolsk I do not know....

Another possibility is that SVT's were made at both factories - which may explain the two versions of supposed Kovrov SVT stamps.
Then again - Tula SKS rifles have several variations of the Tula Star - even when examining the same year of production.

 

[Lee Enfield]

That is a 7.62 magazine as is the barrel, with a Korea vintage rollover comb and Jostams butt. That serial numbering convention is very intriguing. Is there any sign of No.4T scope pads on the left sidewall?

1. It's a commercially manufactured sporter butt stock which has been altered. I have 1 or 2 of the original.

2. LB snipers were not numbered under the butt socket.

3. The serial is well outside the sniper range block. I have seen several other 80L rifles outside the block and own at least 1x 90L rifle which is outside the 90L block.

Someone built themselves a nice DCRA style target rifle - if it's a legit DCRA it's one of 2000, so well inside the "bubble".

 

[dimon]

I agree completely. I am not an SVT collector, but I do have a great interest in history of the design and it's development. Once again, there is a wealth of information available across the pond, particularly about SVT's. What a heck, I even ask the source for permission to re-post the info he shared. He is a retired Soviet/Russian Army senior officer specializing in small arms. All Russian speaking CGNers more than likely know who I am talking about. I will try to make a separate thread about this if I have a time. I have no first hand knowledge of these things, but time and finances permitting I'll be traveling to these places to gain the info I want to gain. The archives in most of plants are accessible to a degree and only written notes are allowed to be taken. No photocopying is allowed.
Anyhow, SVT's were made in: Tula then evacuated to Mednogorsk. Izhevsk. And Podolsk then evacuated to Zlatoust...

P.S. Apparently DP's were made in Kovrov. Logos were similar in Kovrov and Podolsk/Zlatoust plants...

Agreed. Someone with more knowledge and power than me should import these into a new thread. It could be true? I know many DP28's had an arsenal marking of an arrow within an oval - very similar to the wide oval stamp on SVT's. Whether DP's were made at Kovrov or Podolsk I do not know....

Another possibility is that SVT's were made at both factories - which may explain the two versions of supposed Kovrov SVT stamps.
Then again - Tula SKS rifles have several variations of the Tula Star - even when examining the same year of production.

 

[enefgee]

L-42

View attachment 5344 View attachment 5345 View attachment 5346 View attachment 5347

I hate you in the very best possible way - you sir, have amazing taste in rifles, I am green with envy. Should you ever need a kidney, lung, spleen, heart, or partially used brain, I would gladly trade - straight across.

 

[Robbs]

How many authentic L42's are there around?
This was in my collection for many many years but I got tired of it and cashed in on it. It was a D71. Accuracy was not all that impressive, and the forestock movement plays havoc on the barrel affecting accuracy. It went to war once during the Falklands conflict and right after that the British army decided they needed to replace it, and fast!

 

[RussiaBerdan]

Swiss Peabody Model 1867-77 one of the +8000 modified by the Swiss from the original Model 1867 made by Providence Tool Company

Swiss Vetterli Cadet Rifle Model 1870 Type II not so many around. I have not found yet the cleaning road

Schmidt-Rubin Cadet Rifle Model 1897

Portuguese Kropatschek Model 1886 Short Rifle ( 4800 made)

Portoguese Kropatschek Model 1886 Carbine ( 4000 made)

Norvegian Krag-Jorgensen Carbine Model 1904 ( 2.750 made)

Enfield N° 4 MkI* Savage serial number but rebuilt/repaired by Long Branch in 1955

Peruvian Model 1891 Rifle shortened in a Carbine modified in the '30s

Dutch Eat Indies Engeneer Carbine Model 1895 ( 1.000 made)

Finnish Mosin-Nagant Model P26 rifle

regards

 

[Coyote Ugly]

 

[Steve1987]

Coyote: A Johnson collection is very unusual in Canada, very interesting!

I thought about getting one of these for my WWII USMC collection.

-Steve

 

[36 hamon]

you should have seen the MINT johnson with bayonet that was handed into to Hamilton gun amnesty i told them it was nicest one i had ever seen and was worth in the mint condition it was in in access of $4500.00 prolly more if two ppl really wanted it ...they didnt care they just stuck it back in the barrel ...in the half hour i was in the police lockup i saw at least 30.000 worth of guns going to the furnace ...caused a bit of a stink when it hit the papers when i mentioned that instead of having them destroyed the owners should been given the option of donating to a museum for a tax credit ...apparently some of the owners wanted there guns back to donate them ...hehehehe...ya im not allowed back

 

[biggles]

My most rare find

My rarest is.......... A Martini Henry Mk.I 2nd pattern. This is one of the 2100 supplied to Canada in 1873 (or 1874?). They were put into storage & never generally issued except to regimental shooting teams & the RMC in Kingston. This one has an RMC stamp on the buttstock.
What is missing in the photos is the block & phosper bronze block pin as I had them out of the receiver at the time. I do love the Martini Henry.

What makes it rare is that the British modified the rifle to Mk.I 3rd pattern standard before they ever issued them to the British army, so all the tens of thousands of Mk.I 2nd pattern rifles in store in the UK were converted, except the Canadian shipment which were already shipped to Canada. Because they were not issued they were never subsequently updated.

Peter (in Ontario)

 

[mcpherson284]

you should have seen the MINT johnson with bayonet that was handed into to Hamilton gun amnesty i told them it was nicest one i had ever seen and was worth in the mint condition it was in in access of $4500.00 prolly more if two ppl really wanted it ...they didnt care they just stuck it back in the barrel ...in the half hour i was in the police lockup i saw at least 30.000 worth of guns going to the furnace ...caused a bit of a stink when it hit the papers when i mentioned that instead of having them destroyed the owners should been given the option of donating to a museum for a tax credit ...apparently some of the owners wanted there guns back to donate them ...hehehehe...ya im not allowed back

Please delete this post or retype it to something else, I am already to cry about some of the ones I have been told of in the past, just hearing another story such as this brings me that much closer. But good on you for bringing up the Donation part of a tax credit.

 

[RRCo.]

Too young to die and too good; this thread I mean.

 

[IBM]

I think under 10,000 of these were made... Globco Mohawk