Best 30-30 load

shoot_to_kill

shoot_to_kill

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I have a winchester model 94 in 30-30. I have been experimenting with some cast bullet loads. I haven't had the best accuracy so far. What is the preferred velocity of a 170 grain cast fp bullet with a gas check? I have tried around 2000 fps with varget and imr 4895, also tried 1600 fps with H4198. So far nothing I really like. Any suggestions would be great.
 
How hard are the cast bullets? Did you cast them or buy them? Were the bullets sized? Did you slug your barrel?

It sounds like you've tried the top and bottom end of the speed spectrum. How was the leading in the barrel at the high end? Maybe you'd have better results somewhere between the bottom and the top.
 
Oh you'll get swamped over this one!!

10 grains of Unique should get you around 1400 fps, accurate out of my Marlin 30AS.
4198 and RL7 are good, grab a beer- go to Castboolits.com and do some serious reading. In my experience keeping them below 1800 fps is the easiest compromise of accuracy without fouling the bore.
 
My bore is .308 diameter, the bullets were purchased from R and R bullets. They are fairly hard cast bullets .309 diameter. With my lower end 4198 reloads the bullets dropped a lot over 100 yards. So I think somewhere around 1700-1900 fps would work. But my powder choices so far haven't yielded the accuracy I want. Also leading of the barrel is very minimal almost non existant.
 
Depends what you want from your reloads. If best accuracy is the goal, probably some lighter loads - maybe about 14gr of 2400, 7.5 - 8 gr of unique, or 14 - 15gr of H110 with most cast bullets between 150 and 200gr.
If you're looking for hunting ammunition, then bigger charges of slower powder are in order. something in the order of 24gr of H4895 should be a reasonable starting point. In my experience, for most slower powders, 75% of the jacketed load should be a reasonable starting point. Good luck and good shooting. For what it's worth, most of my rifles with good smooth bores shoot better with 20:1lead and tin than with wheelweight alloys.
Grouch
 
shoot_to_kill said:
My bore is .308 diameter, ... fairly hard cast bullets .309 diameter.
Click to expand...


my initial thought is they are too small and too hard.

a 30-30 is not very high pressured. the bullets need to fit very well, as there will not be much bump up if you use a slower powder, and with hard cast, there may be no bumping.

take a fired case, unsized, and drop a fresh bullet into it. if it drops with with lots of room, they are too small. you should get just a tad of contact/resistance as they enter the neck, and be able to push them in with light thumb pressure.


for what 10gr Unique can do, watch THIS!
 
8gr unique in my 94 works great with a 165 gr plain based cast boolit. Some kind of red beeswax lube on the cast. No leading what so ever
 
Hi Grouch, interesting post.
I have had pretty limited experience with lead alloy bullets in a 30-30, but one should be able to drive a gas check bullet as fast as jacketed bullets are designed to go, in a 30-30. Factory loads and the loadings shown in modern loading manuals only give a doubtful 2,000 fps for a 30-30 with 170 grain bullets. I would try 30 grains of 3031, which will give about this velocity and size tem to about bore size, in a 30-30.
I have shot quite a few cast bullets in a 30-06 as fast as a 30-30 would drive them and got good hunting accuracy.
One thing I have noticed with cast lead alloy bullets is that the larger the calibre, the more accurate they shoot. This may be because one tends to drive them slower, but doesn't always prove out that way.
Hard to go wrong with 44 magnum, rifle or revolver, but the most accurate I ever shot cast was in a Marlin 45-70.
 
IMR4895 is a bit too slow for 30-30, it's not getting high enough pressure to burn efficiently and that's likely causing or contributing to poor accuracy. Only about 80% of the powder is burning.

20 gr of either IMR or Hodgdon 4227 is a nice efficient load with cast 170 gr bullets in a 30-30, and still some room to work up if you want to. 20 gr is basically the starting load for jacketed bullets and should give 1800-1850 fps in a 20 in bbl. This a pretty good load with a jacketed bullet, too.

If your barrel is a bit rough you might not get accuracy from cast lead bullets and might have to stick with jaccketed. Cast bullets do not tolerate pits or rough bores as well as jacketed bullets do.
 
Had another look at your post and had to wonder why H4198 didn't work out better, it should be a good powder in 30-30. So i ran it through Quickload and I think I know what went wrong. I think your 4198 load was too light.

Your load must be approximately 18 gr of 4198 to make 1600 fps, and that will generate less than 20,000 psi. Many of the rifle powders don't start to burn reliably until you get about 30,000 psi.

Bump that load up a bit and it will likely perform better. Experiment between 20 to 23 gr, that's where i'd expect to find the sweet spot.

Quickload estimates:
20gr = 1800 fps, 25,000 psi
23gr = 1925 fps, 35,000 psi
(SAAMI max for 30-30 is 42,000 psi)
 
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How do you know your bore is .308"? Did you slug it or are you just going by the designation for .30/30? To get reliable accuracy your cast bullets should be a minimum of 2 or 3 thousandths over the bore diameter... and I agree that 4198 and 3031 should be good powders to work with... Unique and TB should net a good, accurate plinking load...
 
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