Totally unethical? - Should we boycott as a group?

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Well said. Doesn't matter the sport, folks always frowns on others that are NOT doing it their way.

Too many conversation with too many non hunters that say even a second of suffering is too much, let alone a minute with lung/heart shots. If you can't get close enough to guarantee a 100% head shot/instant kill it is NOT ethical. Let's NOT even go into bow hunting.



Statistically the next miss will have a high probability >70% to be quickly forgotten; human nature :rolleyes:


Lots of Slippery Slope "logic" being used here. Nobody said that there should be 100% guarantee of a quick, clean shot. BUT, if you have a 99% chance, then why settle for taking a 70%, 50% or poorer chance shot? Is there any human on earth that can reliably and consistantly, let's say within +/- 1 mph, guage the wind across a ravine/valley over a distance of +1300 yards? A 1mph error in wind speed at that range takes you out of the kill zone and into the wound zone on an elk. Make an error of 1mph at 250 yards and it's no big deal, you have a clean kill.
 
Think you are confusing quite a few different shows here D. The guys in the video are from Long Range Pursuit. They are also the guys that build Gunwerks guns. The guys from Best of the West shoot Cooper rifles. They are two completely different shows. Not sure where the Canadian connection comes in but I guess I could be considered biased too because I don't shoot either brand. I think it's been a good a civil discussion.


Could be. You certainly do know the people involved a lot better than me. I will 'skate away' from that part of the discussion.


The whole problem here is the money, endorsements. As soon as money is involved, there is pressure to use certain equipment, fancy guns, scopes etc, to get the advertising plugs in. That pushes hunters into stuff like Hail Mary shots, that are intended to demonstrate the equipment.
I've seen some rather clumsy shooting on a few of the shows on Wild TV, where guys want to show off what the rig will do...
 
Think you are confusing quite a few different shows here D. The guys in the video are from Long Range Pursuit. They are also the guys that build Gunwerks guns. The guys from Best of the West shoot Cooper rifles. They are two completely different shows. Not sure where the Canadian connection comes in but I guess I could be considered biased too because I don't shoot either brand. I think it's been a good a civil discussion.

"Best of the West" used to be sponsored by Gunwerks and Huskemaw.
 
Could be. You certainly do know the people involved a lot better than me. I will 'skate away' from that part of the discussion.


The whole problem here is the money, endorsements. As soon as money is involved, there is pressure to use certain equipment, fancy guns, scopes etc, to get the advertising plugs in. That pushes hunters into stuff like Hail Mary shots, that are intended to demonstrate the equipment.
I've seen some rather clumsy shooting on a few of the shows on Wild TV, where guys want to show off what the rig will do...

No doubt money is a big factor in these long range shows but at the end of the day, we are discussing one shot and its ethics here....not the state of an industry. Guys were taking long range shots long before hunting was on television. Hopefully now many of those same people are being exposed to the methods and gear to do it ethically. I'm not a long-range shooter so I have no real stake in this but I'd say guys are going to take long range shots regardless so it seems a good thing to me that there are venues that teach them to do it properly. I'm happy hunting the way I do and I'm happy others do it differently.
 
Unethical? For some, sure. Others, not so much.. Ethics are a personal choice, that may or may not align with yours, and that's OK so long as its legal...Don't like it? Your choice.. Why waste your time banging on about ethics that aren't yours?
 
I couldn't agree more. 600 yard shot, 100's of shots down range, well practiced, easy shot.

If he had made the shot first time, I would have thought, heck of a shooter. But he didn't. Gear and training should dictate what is ethical, I agree. All of those involved (as there are people calling the shot) didn't make the shot happen first time (with all of their experience combined).

Missed shot (stationary target) live animal, with as good a rest as possible, time to set up = unethical shooting distance for that shooter.

I had a shot at a deer, standing broadside on a fence-line, at about 200 yards. Used a tree as a rest, lined the shot up perfectly. Squeezed off a round and was expecting a "whump".

Nothing. Clean miss. Looked for blood. Looked for hair. All I managed to find after walking back and forth from where I shot from to where the deer was standing was a freshly cut twig on some brush at about the 100yd mark.

Am I an unethical shooter? Am I a bad hunter?

Why are you yelling? Does loudness lend authority to your statements?
 
Some hacks buy bows and wound animals at 15 yards...

Some hacks buy iron sighted .30-30s and wound animals at 75 yards...

Some hacks buy scope sighted .30-06s and wound animals at 150 yards...

Some hacks buy what they see on long range pursuit and wound animals at 800 yards...

Are you seeing a common theme here?

Its not my cup 'o tea but thumbs up to the people that know what it takes and can pull it off with consistency.
 
Using an elk for long range target shooting is not hunting, IMHO.
Hunting is what you do when you stalk the animal.
 
I'm happy hunting the way I do and I'm happy others do it differently.

Even if they do it in a way that they hit 1 out of 2 shots, somewhere on the animal? Because 90% of the hunters are not fine with it.

"Yeah, but his shot ethics are different than mine."

So are the ethics of a rapist right because it feels right for him? Or is it the majority group of people who oppose him who are right? Bit of an extreme example, I know.
 
Even if they do it in a way that they hit 1 out of 2 shots, somewhere on the animal? Because 90% of the hunters are not fine with it.

"Yeah, but his shot ethics are different than mine."

So are the ethics of a rapist right because it feels right for him? Or is it the majority group of people who oppose him who are right? Bit of an extreme example, I know.

I think I'm done here.....
 
Basically you're opinion is that any distance is okay so long as you kill the animal, with 1 out of 2 shots most of the time.

Basically I am saying that I don't want to see an animal suffer by taking low percentage shots. 1376 yards is a low percentage shot for anyone. The fact that you can't see that is what bother me.

I doubt whoever got you into hunting would be proud of you okaying 1 kilometer plus shots to a 12 year old kid.

Wind, thermals, the possibility of an animal taking 2 steps in the 2 seconds it takes the bullet to get there make this one of the stupidest shots ever promoted.

We all know this shot is a low percentage shot. And the percentage gets lower the further out you go. Factors we can't control or estimate exact enough, turn it into guessing.

What's it going to take, 95% of hunters saying its unethical to admit we shouldn't support this?
 
Where have I seen these tactics before?

Made up stats: check
Made up generalizations: check
The but this could have happened: check
Comparisons to completely irrelevant things: check
Its OK if I do it but not you to: check
I don't like it so you cant do it: check
The majority of people think: check
Think of the children: check

Shawn
 
I havnt read this whole thread but im going to agree with the OP about this gunwerks guy, and im a LR hunter at times. I regularly shoot 1000 yards plus ... Custom 7rem, Night Force ect , The longest hunting shot ive taken was 733 ... i will tell you for me in the field that was more than far enough.

Now i just watched a show with this same guy down in New Zealend and he was hunting Red Stag. He made a shot i believe it was about 875 yards. He miss judged the wind and i watched the bullet hit the stag on top of the back of the hind quarter ... The stag looked like it went straight to the ground. However as soon as the stag hit ass first they panned away. They showed the same replay 3 times panning away before the front quarters hit the ground.

So ... i wonder how hard that animal died ? I was apalled ! im personally sick of this gunwerks son of a B1tch ! They are not hunters , they are shooters shooting at game.

Im not against resonable shots at longer ranges. Especially in the 6 - 700 yard range once and awhile if its really necessary. But what the Gunwerks guys are is complete BS. If i ever get a chance to see that guy at a gun show ill give him an ear full.
 
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Ethics are a personal choice...to argue as to what is right and wrong makes about as much sense as to argue about which religion should be followed.
IMHO, Hunting isn't a 100% guaranteed humane kill sport, to strive for such is admirable but believing that it is achievable is not realistic. To many things can and at times, do go wrong in the last milli-seconds when the shot is fired. If you want to be 100% positive that you will not cause any undue suffering to an animal regardless of the range the shot was taken at, might be the best way to achieve this, is to not hunt at all.
The sad fact about life in general is that nature is cruel and a humane kill is only a human concerted effort toward an end. The ironic thing in all of this, is that we (people in general) are more concerned about a humane death of an animal, than we are (in war) for a humane death of our own species.
Go figure????
 
One of the things I don't see mentioned in this thread is the advance of firearm and hunting technology over the last 100 years.

60 years ago, 90% of hunters you'd never seen anywhere near a scope; mostly because of cost both to the scope and to the rifle being good enough to bear it.

Through out the 60's, 70's and 80's you saw massive leaps in numbers that changed over from irons to glass and its only been continuing. Two major driving forces behind this as well; 1. A large portion of shooters today are getting older and finding it harder and harder to use the irons. 2. the cost of glass has been constantly going down, with wider and wider ranges of options for shooters to take advantage of today.

You can also look at the lockers of shooters today and see major changes in quality over the years. Does a great gun make an amazing shooter? No, but it certainly doesn't make him worse.


OP started by talking about hunting at short ranges, which back in the day .30-30 was everyone's best friend and past 100 yards I'm not sure how much I'd trust any of my .30-30's, not to say that the balistics isn't there to say its possible.

Through out the years you saw hunters moving through .30-30 into .308, .270, .30-06 and 7mm phases of "popularity". Every one of those rounds has their pros and cons, but most certainly the POWER of those rounds were driving forces to their popularity.

Not only did calibers change the face of hunting, so did the firearms. At one time, all you needed was a Sears Model Marlin .30-30 and you'd be the epic outdoorsmen. Today, you have post and bedded, light triggers, high magnification scopes, light weight build materials, high standards of quality, and hundreds of other features all coming together in great cocktail of explosive awesomeness.



I do agree with all of OP's sentiments towards making sure its a clean kill, and that one must be sure be ready to ensure the animal does not suffer any longer than it has too. Though I do not know of a single Hunting Instructor that has ever advocated "forget about it suffering, just try to take longer shots."

I will say that one of the greatest things about hunting is the challenge. If I didn't want challenge I honestly would just go to the grocer for all my meaty needs ((and typically that's what happens)). Hunting with my camera has been a real fun addition to the last few years of sitting in the bush. But one of the challenges I do enjoy IS pushing the envelope of range hunting. Currently the record shot sits at 570 yards, with hundreds of rounds down the range to paper to be confident to make that shot from a prone position with rifle rested on pack. To increase that shot to 650 would be a great feeling; but those opportunities just don't come up that often where I hunt.


OP you're going to constantly see a rise in the push for new challenges for hunting; that is simply the nature of the sport/way of life. People thrive on challenge, and as technology continues to improve ((though the last few years Rem has been kinda letting me down there, still have Browning and Savage to enjoy though)) those challenges are just going to continue to evolve.


I do say good on you for wanting to preach great bushmanship in not causing sufferage to the animal; but I will say this "boycott" you suggest simply will do nothing. People will forget about it as soon as the new fangled toy at an "amazing deal" comes along and you just gotta have it.
 
The recurve user thinks compound bow users aren't hunters.
The traditional blackpowder user thinks inline users aren't hunters.
The standard caliber rifle user thinks that the magnum users aren't hunters.
The 300 yard shooter thinks that 800+yd shooters aren't hunters.

Live and let live
 
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