My new Snider project finished photos page 4

[Tinman204]

My new 3 band Snider MkII** arrived in the mail yesterday!! Got it from a fellow gun nut (thank you Terry!).

I bought it for a very reasonable price, as it needs a full resto to get back to being a shooter again. Figured if I can't save it, I at least have a really good example of a snider action for my collection, or I have all of the parts to restore a full length Sporter if one ever comes my way.

It's all there except the firing pin, and firing pin protector. The stock is cracked where the action sits, but is very repairable. I pulled it apart last night just to see what's what, every looks good and is very serviceable. Most of the original browning is there, and from the outside it looks great.

The only thing that is in terrible shape is the bore. It's very rusty, fouled and pitted so I won't know what I got until I knock down the scale and see what lays underneith all of the crap. I plugged the end and sprayed a good amount of heavy duty penetrating oil into the bore, we'll see if it loosens some of the crap. There's rifling in there still present so I hope if I can knock down the bad spots and maybe, just maybe I can make her a half way decent shooter!

Just wondering if some of you have every had success cleaning a snider with a rusty bore and if so what did you use to polish it up?? Any help would be great as I really would like to save this thing.

Here's some pics

Any help in getting that bore clean would be great!! I really want to make this gun a regular shooter!

 

[tokguy]

No help on getting a bore clean. But mine will likely have a date with a saw in the future so if the first 12 - 14" of yours is shootable maybe we can talk swap.

 

[Tinman204]

No help on getting a bore clean. But mine will likely have a date with a saw in the future so if the first 12 - 14" of yours is shootable maybe we can talk swap.

That's an interesting proposal. I'm not sure what I have yet. The entire length of the bore is pitted, my initial scrubbing knocked off lots of crap, so maybe, just maybe I can save the barrel. Once I get the rust out, I will have to lap the bore and then I'll know what I got.

It's a real shame as the exterior of the gun is pretty nice, and in original un cleaned condition, retaining most of the original browning.

 

[antiqueguy]

That's an interesting proposal. I'm not sure what I have yet. The entire length of the bore is pitted, my initial scrubbing knocked off lots of crap, so maybe, just maybe I can save the barrel. Once I get the rust out, I will have to lap the bore and then I'll know what I got.

It's a real shame as the exterior of the gun is pretty nice, and in original un cleaned condition, retaining most of the original browning.

a little pitting will not hurt but id stay away from laping the bore the lands and gooves are not that deep to start. also the muzzle looks to have a good ding in it a crowning may be in order there

also these guns were not browned but blued with a case hardend lock plate this faded over time to plum/brown color with rust building ect

 

[englishman_ca]

I have had very good success cleaning badly rusted bores with an electrolysis tank made from cardboard, tape and a plastic garbage bag. Tank filled with a solution of dishwasher crystals solution. Steel rod with insulating rubber O rings inserted into the bore. Submerse and hook the barrel to the -, and the rod to the + on a battery charger. Let her fizzle and blow bubbles go for a few hours and then brush out ALL the rust which will have turned to a black slime.

So simple and effective, you won't believe it!

The parent metal will not be harmed no matter how long you leave it in there, although you might have to rebrown the finish as the metal might come out a dark steel grey (which I actually like as a patina). But since it is the inside bore that is getting zapped, I found that often the exterior is untouched.

Well tried and tested method as used by museum conservators.

Works well on old actions, handtools or anything steel or iron, leave it in long enough and it will un-seize rust frozen screws and mechanisms. Only negative I found is that it can make carbon steel brittle, so remove any springs first, if you can.

Some commercial variations use a rubber bungy plugged bore and the vertical barrel filled with solution, but I find it gets to be very messy, black slime bubbling out and gets everywhere.

 

[Tinman204]

a little pitting will not hurt but id stay away from laping the bore the lands and govve are not that deep to start. also the muzzle looks to have a good ding in it a crowning may be in order there

also these guns were not browned but blued with a case hardend lock plate this faded over time to plum/brown color with rust building ect

So they are blued eh? I kinda like the brown, and would like to leave the metal as original as possible. A crowning is in order, one of the dents in the crown is touching the bore and will affect accuracy.

As fore the bore, it's so bad that I'm not sure what the extent of the damage will be. But I bought a Turk Mauser earlier this year with a barrel that was in just as bad of shape. I scrubbed for months, and now it's just a dark bore, but the gun was a 12" grouper when I got it and now it will do 2 1/2" on a good day.

I'm just happy to have another longterm project, and a good thing is there is rifling in there, so eventually if I can get the crap out, I'll be able to see the extent of the pitting.

 

[tokguy]

If the pits are really dismal, this is a thought.
Get it cleaned down to bare metal and liberally apply some Bore Butter. It supposedly seasons the bore like a cast iron fry pan.
It's much easier than swapping a BBL if it works as good as they claim.

 

[Tinman204]

Bore butter is an idea. Basically I'm trying to gather as many ideas before I do anything. This gun is 152 years old and it's up to me to try and make sure it last another 152 years!

I don't want to do anything that would ruin it.

 

[Musketfire]

Great looking rifle!!

 

[HUNTERROD]

I'd just scrub it best way possible, the oil should help loosen
Some of the rust , as for deep pits, soft lead bullets will get
Chewed up in rough bores, it will affect accuracy, I have a 71/84
Mauser, I'm fortunate to have a pristine bore ! And had it
Color case hardened yesterday by Oskar Kob. It truly is a unique
Piece now. Just have to locate some gd once fired or new brass
Some of mine are starting to split in base, the are dominion
Other than that it shoots great! If you need a barrel for your
Snider i may be able to locate one,

 

[Tinman204]

Just an update. I made an electrolysis tank last night and hooked up the barrel for about an hour. The rust bubbled out, and it actually took quite a bit of it off!!!

What was left in the clean spots is very shallow pitting.

Maybe the barrel can be saved!! I'll update after a a second attempt.

 

[QM 8687]

Simon- good gunsmithing trick!

 

[englishman_ca]

Simon- good gunsmithing trick!

Ya, so simple, yet so effective.

It is the method that museums use on relic cannons salvaged from the sea bed, or old swords and tools that are dug up from the ground. They can be in the tank for months or even years. The rust dissolves but the parent metal isn't touched. Unlike acid dips, lye or other harse chemicals, it wont harm animal or vegatable protein. Arm and Hammer washing soda is another recipe for the electrolyte solution that works well too.

I have even used it on webbing kit and belts where the buckles and such have been solid rusted, the solution doesn't harm the cotton or leather.

I did a relic revolver frame with grips attached. Let it go for almost a week. Dissolved all rust and loosened the seized and chewed up grip panel screws. It was the grips that I wanted to salvage. The wooden grips were affected by the moisture in that it popped all the dents and dings out, even brought back up some of the chequering.

My current pet project is a P53 musket that initially was beyond hope. I thought that it was a smooth bore when I first cleaned it with brushes and solvent. Electrolysis revealed shallow but defined rifling. Cleaned out to bare metal, I can hit the 75 yard gong with it now!

Another trick, I use electrolysis to put a dark grey patina on parts that have fresh metal showing from repairs. Iron will come out a dark grey that ages quickly. If left bare in humidity, it will surface rust overnight, which I then steam and turn into a slow rust blue.

So I find that it has its uses.

 

[smellie]

Steve, I saw th photos and earlier today you showed me the rifle.

What you have accomplished with that one rates as a medium-sized miracle.

She will be a Shooter for sure!

 

[Tinman204]

Steve, I saw th photos and earlier today you showed me the rifle.

What you have accomplished with that one rates as a medium-sized miracle.

She will be a Shooter for sure!

Thank you George! Means a lot to me to hear that. I just want to learn, study, and put what I've learned into practice. I've met quite a few milsurp and antique gun nutz and from those meetings I've learned that I'm probably 30 years younger then most of the you guys that are in the know.

I figure that if I am going to learn I have to do it now, as the knowledge will be lost over time. You guys have so much to teach and you do it so openly and honestly I'd be a fool not to write it down, and file it. Otherwise these guns may not make it another 150 years which is a damn shame!

Electrolysis was something I was afraid to do before but once it was mentioned on here by another member, I thought "ok it's time to try it!".

Thankyou Englishman, I've read many of your posts and from that I trusted you thoughts on the subject. I figured if you said try it, that I should!!

One more treatment tonight, and hopefully the barrel will be good to go, with a little cleanup to the outside. Then I will move on to doing something with the two piece stock which needs to be put back together.

Little by little this gun will get back to shooting form! There's NO wallhangers in my house and this one will be no different.

 

[tokguy]

Yeah that electrolysis trick works pretty good. But I'm really glad your barrel turned out because the bbl I offered you Tinman...turns out that pipe weevils...umm...bbl weevils already got to it. It's got about 12-14" of unblemished bbl ahead of the chamber and then it gets ugly.
Which while it is kinda sad; thank god it is definitely an antique, even with 24 ga cartridges.
Because it's likely going to get a haircut.

 

[Tinman204]

My barrels pretty mint now, first 24" are shiny with only the slightest shallow pitting, last 4-6" is rough in spots but whatever she's 152 years old so I'd say she looks real good for her age.

I brake cleaned the oil out of the stock over the last few days and finally decided that the wood was ready to be put back together. I used non shrinking expoxy and clamped it back together. I removed the clamps and gave the wood a good twist. It's rock solid now. O then mixed up some saw dust and expoxy to fill the cracks and spots that are missing wood and then stained them. Looks pretty good now, and I'm going to use brass screws as pins and cut the heads off flush with the stock.

I'm really enjoying this build, it's been a little more challenging as I don't want to do a full resto, I just want to remove rust and green corrosion on the brass. I've left the reddish brown patina on the brass as I figure this gun will only be original once. They look great when theyre all shiney and whatnot but to me I like them looking original. I figure when you clean and polish them you loose all of the history.

The only thing that sucks is a had to do a full cleaning to the stock as there's so many cracks and it was quite oily. I cleaned it but did zero sanding, so it still looks real old a crappy just the way it should.

I'll keep everyone posted on my progress, hope to have it done in a month or so.

 

[antiqueguy]

we need pics

 

[maple_leaf_eh]

Tinman204 - you're showing a lot of respect to that old Snider Enfield. Keep up the good work and share your stories. The collective wisdom is curious.

 

[Tinman204]

Terry, thanks again for this gem, I'm having a blast preserving it.

I wasn't posting pics as I figured maybe you antique guys been there done that! I'm still pretty new at this but this is my 6th complete resto/preservation in the last 6 months. I started with a Enfield no1 mk3 Sporter I got from a buddy at work, then my ROSS M10, turk Mauser that was in a crawlspace for 10 years, a m38 carcano that i got for my wife and I just did a 6.5x54ms carcano for my brother with a stock that was absolutely destroyed! There's pics of that one under my latest started threads in my profile. I don't "restore" these guns, I simply correct damage, preserve and get them back into shooting condition. If it will help others to fix these old relics then of course I'll post lots of pics. Really I'm just a guy who loves to shoot old milsurp guns and I spend way too much time in my "cave" a 12x6 concrete vault/gun room in the basement at home.

I've been helped a lot by Smellie and Buffdog and a few others.

I have a few pics right now, and when I get home in a few hours I'll take some more and post them.

Here's the barrel after I scrubbed it for an evening, it was bad when I got it, so bad my bore scope light didn't shine to the end.

Here it is after 4-6 hours of treatment. I pulled it out every couple of hours to scrub the crap off the anode rod and to check my progress. I'd also run a dry patch through the barrel to push all of the black scum out. Now it's still rough at the end but the first 24" actually looks pretty shiney. The entire bore was covered in scale that would not scrub out. Electrolysis is by far the easiest and best way I've found to clean a rusty fouled bore. In fact I have Turkish gew88 that I scrubbed for 2 months and ran 1000 patches through that doesn't look as good.

Here's my electrolysis tank, made from the box the gun was shipped in and some poly. It worked great, but I've decided to make a better one out of a 3" piece of abs pipe capped and then cut in 1/2. But none the less this set up worked great. The anode rod I used was a 1/4" steel rod I got at princess auto. I isolated it with electrical tape wrapped around about an 1/8" thick. I did that in 3 places- either end and in the middle. I then bent it so my positive connection would be out of the water. I hooked it up to a 3 amp trickle charger which worked great.

My wife and brother thought I was crazy when I told them that I may be able to salvage this bore. But I am a mad scientist so this kind of thing is right up my alley!!

More pics to follow later.