are shotgun Model dimensions consistent?

[jsdboy]

to expand on that question------
I am lousy at clay target sports - skeet, trap, sporting clays.
i have gone to trap practices for years and have yet to break 25/25. drives me nuts

we all know that one should "shoulder a gun before buying" or better yet
"shoot as many types as possible to see which fits the best"

right.

so after shouldering as many as possible i bought a browning silver hunter. I am happy, it's as good as it gets for me.
then i stumbled onto a an old fox sterlingworth that shoot higher scores with than the lovely browning. baffled
i have tried numerous citori's, they feel like a poorly balance club, but they are beautiful.
Beretta's give me better results, but i can't do the 3 G's thing yet.

today a fellow lent me his Winchester model 101 field gun satin something or other. busted 22/25 on the first go. this gun likes me!

So. if i were to find a Win 101 on CGN or elsewhere, will it be of similar proportions to whatever the one was that i used today?? are the dimesnions consistent?

i could afford one of these in the near future and i was thrilled with how it just fit into me. and one of my big indicators is if the gun belts my cheek bone or not. not this one.

any one have any experience with this subject??

thanks in advance!
jsd

 

[stubblejumper]

Like most models, the 101 comes in several versions, with varying dimensions.

 

[Winchested]

Looks like you could have saved tourself thousands by getting a professional gun fitting to find your proper fit. And then maybe the thousands you wasted on guns could have been put towards proper stock work on anyone of those guns to make them fit.

 

[Lodi]

then i stumbled onto a an old fox sterlingworth that shoot higher scores with...

If you still have access to this gun, take some measurements, pitch, drop-at-comb, and length-of-pull. Then change your existing gun to have the same measurements.

 

[jsdboy]

If you still have access to this gun, take some measurements, pitch, drop-at-comb, and length-of-pull. Then change your existing gun to have the same measurements.

That is a great idea!
and it is so obvious, sort of. that's why I post these little "bleats" for help!
thanks Lodi, i do have access to it and i can do that!
and then maybe i can do what winchested recommended with the measurements, hell, i will just take the old sterlingworth to a stock fella, there is one in the area.
this is good, thanks!

 

[straightshooter]

There are two separate factors at play here, jsdboy. Stock fit is clearly important. Measuring up a gun that you shoot well is not necessarily the same as measuring up one that fits you properly. Remember that logic is not reversible.

In the same way as Alma Coghan is dead, but not all who are dead are Alma Coghan, you should shoot well with guns that fit you, but not all guns you shoot well necessarily fit you.

If I were you, I'd take Winchested's advice and get measured up properly. Then, measure up any guns that you think fit you and compare, if you like. Chances are, you'll find that good fit for you varies slightly from one design to another.

You may notice that these days many guns intended for clay sports are adjustable. This is a testament to how important fit is for consistent results.

Which brings me to the second factor: Clay sports guns are heavy. Skeet guns have open chokes and shorter barrels, for lively short-range performance. Sporting Clays guns have slightly longer barrels and slightly tighter chokes, for an assortment of presentations. And Trap guns have long, tighter choked barrels, for smooth swing and follow through. What they all have in common is that they are heavy when compared to field guns. Since you don't have to carry competition guns in the field, they are built heavier, both to absorb more recoil and in order to make them more robust and capable of the hundreds of thousands of rounds expected to be run through them.

The Winchester 101 is a heavy gun compared to most field guns (Trap models are even heavier, I know - I have one). What you experienced with the 101 may have had as much to do with the 101 being a better choice for clay sports to begin with. If you want to dabble in all 3 clay sports, you have to compromise. 28" barrels are mid-length. Removeable chokes are a must, if you want to shoot skeet and trap with the same gun. A good, solid gun for the purpose would be something along the lines of the 101 you tried, or a Beretta or a Browning, if budget permits. If you're made of money, a Perazzi is an excellent choice!

 

[jsdboy]

There are two separate factors at play here, jsdboy. Stock fit is clearly important. Measuring up a gun that you shoot well is not necessarily the same as measuring up one that fits you properly. Remember that logic is not reversible.

well, I think you have maybe defined why I think that shooting a shotgun is so damn paradoxical and nonsensical. there is nothing very measurable like shooting rifle.
perhaps the old sterlingworth does not fit well at all, perhaps i crunch more clay with it because the gun is so heavy (8 lbs unloaded ) that i just can not stop a swing even if I wanted to and thus that magical 'follow through' happens of it's own accord.
that Winchester felt lighter, but it was balanced differently, it just swung easier. it did not feel like i was pushing a weight around like on the old sterlingworth.
in searching around to see what the heck it was that i was shooting, it appears to be a Win. "select", which was a successor to the actual 101 I guess.

in short, thank you for the advice on removable chokes - great - a requisite. thanks for tuning me in to Alma Coghan - never heard of her until now.
and i am old enough that i should have.

I do believe that any time enough $ comes for a perazzi that other priorities will trump it. Bummer, I know. what needs to be done is to make a choice: shoot one sport/discipline well or dabble in them all? right now i am in dabble mode which makes for a pretty dilute success formula. which brings me to the last thank you: for the advice on a shotgun that might work for all 3 types of clays - otherwise dabble advice!

I know that shotgun sports will start to overtake some of the others just because it is so illogical! have you ever noticed that the less you think the better the score? completely contrary to a rim fire bench rest shoot for example..........................

 

[straightshooter]

well, I think you have maybe defined why I think that shooting a shotgun is so damn paradoxical and nonsensical. there is nothing very measurable like shooting rifle.
perhaps the old sterlingworth does not fit well at all, perhaps i crunch more clay with it because the gun is so heavy (8 lbs unloaded ) that i just can not stop a swing even if I wanted to and thus that magical 'follow through' happens of it's own accord.
that Winchester felt lighter, but it was balanced differently, it just swung easier. it did not feel like i was pushing a weight around like on the old sterlingworth.
in searching around to see what the heck it was that i was shooting, it appears to be a Win. "select", which was a successor to the actual 101 I guess.

in short, thank you for the advice on removable chokes - great - a requisite. thanks for tuning me in to Alma Coghan - never heard of her until now.
and i am old enough that i should have.

I do believe that any time enough $ comes for a perazzi that other priorities will trump it. Bummer, I know. what needs to be done is to make a choice: shoot one sport/discipline well or dabble in them all? right now i am in dabble mode which makes for a pretty dilute success formula. which brings me to the last thank you: for the advice on a shotgun that might work for all 3 types of clays - otherwise dabble advice!

I know that shotgun sports will start to overtake some of the others just because it is so illogical! have you ever noticed that the less you think the better the score? completely contrary to a rim fire bench rest shoot for example..........................

You've already grasped two of the keys to Trap shooting! One being the automatic lead. In the trap game, the speed required to overtake the target tends to correspond nicely with the lead needed on the target. Good powers of observation on that one. I believe what you're describing as illogical is the contradiction between concentration and instinct. To shoot well competitively, you obviously have to concentrate. But, concentration is antithetic to instinct and instinctive reaction must be employed in order to hit fast moving targets - particularly at the international game.

Concentrating on consistency in my mount, then switching to a Zen-like "ready mode" has been my approach to the problem (with limited success).