Martini Hery Mk.III

sean69

sean69

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Got a buddy at the range looking for a bayonet for a Martini Henry Mk.III rifle, he's not on EE or gunbroker, truthfully I don't think he fully trusts all dem 'new fangled compubulators dose dang kids is always jacking into' [haha] so I told him I'd poke round and see whats floating about.

Did enough research on the gun to know I need to get a good look at it to confirm it is actually a Mk.III and not a conversion BUT had some issue figuring out which bayonet is correct.
Apparently there are 2 possibilities, the insanely expensive artillery sawback version or the more commonly available sword pattern.

The receiver is marked 1882, which I think still means it could be a BSA manufacture Mk.I - apparently it's as mint as they get, no bruises or blemishes on the wood, strong stamping on receiver, or pitting and a shiny sharp bore.

So, what is the correct bayonet for this mark? [is there more than one?]


thanks
-sean
 
For a Mark III Martini-Henry rifle, the bayonet issued to regular infantry (and thus the most common and least expensive, nowadays) was the Pattern 1876 triangualr-bladed socket bayonet.

Pattern 1853 socket bayonets, originally made to fit .577 Pattern 1853 Enfield rifle muskets - and also the later Snider-Enfield breech-loading conversions - but modified by a bushing in the socket to fit the smaller-diameter Martini-Henry barrel (listed first on the above web page) will fit on a Mark I, II or III Matini-Henry but are really most appropriate for the early Mark I rifle, which was being made and issued before the P'1876 bayonet was adopted. These are relatively uncommon anyway, and correspondingly pricey.

The various other bayonets listed on that webpage were for specialized and relatively limited issue. The Pattern 1856/60 "Yataghan" sword bayonets for the earlier .577 rifles (also modified with a "bushed" muzzle ring for the smaller-diameter M-H barrel) were issued only to "Rifles" regiments and to Sergeants of infantry regiments. The Elcho sword bayonet was only experimental, and as you are aware, surviving examples are extremely expensive. The P'1879 Artillery Pattern bayonet will only fit on a Martini-Henry Artillery carbine. P'1887 bayonets are only appropriate on a Mark IV M-H rifle.
 
Thanks! some great info there. Hopefully he will bring it out for show and tell on Sunday & I can get a good look at the receiver markings From what I have seen it should be pretty easy to spot a conversion.

Pretty sure he said there was a bayonet lug present though. [maybe I can get some pics]

Were these marked with a serial number? [were the bayonets matched?]



GrantR said:
For a Mark III Martini-Henry rifle, the bayonet issued to regular infantry (and thus the most common and least expensive, nowadays) was the Pattern 1876 triangualr-bladed socket bayonet.

Pattern 1853 socket bayonets, originally made to fit .577 Pattern 1853 Enfield rifle muskets - and also the later Snider-Enfield breech-loading conversions - but modified by a bushing in the socket to fit the smaller-diameter Martini-Henry barrel (listed first on the above web page) will fit on a Mark I, II or III Matini-Henry but are really most appropriate for the early Mark I rifle, which was being made and issued before the P'1876 bayonet was adopted. These are relatively uncommon anyway, and correspondingly pricey.

The various other bayonets listed on that webpage were for specialized and relatively limited issue. The Pattern 1856/60 "Yataghan" sword bayonets for the earlier .577 rifles (also modified with a "bushed" muzzle ring for the smaller-diameter M-H barrel) were issued only to "Rifles" regiments and to Sergeants of infantry regiments. The Elcho sword bayonet was only experimental, and as you are aware, surviving examples are extremely expensive. The P'1879 Artillery Pattern bayonet will only fit on a Martini-Henry Artillery carbine. P'1887 bayonets are only appropriate on a Mark IV M-H rifle.
Click to expand...
 
I should clarify that my previous response related to Martini-Henry rifles only - i.e. in the original .577/.450 chambering. (Of course, if a rifle has been converted to .303 it is no longer a Martini-Henry ... it has become either a Martini-Metford or a Martini-Enfield (depending on the type of rifling.)

All British military-issue Martini-Henry rifles had bayonet lugs ..... thus any Mark I, II or III Martini-Henry could be fitted with either the P'1876 socket bayonet (which locks onto the block-like base of the front sight) or with the P1856/60 sword bayonet (which locks onto the bayonet lug) -
MH_I_II_III_foresight_zpsa7072962.jpg


However, the majority of Mark IV Martini-Henry rifles have a ramped base for the front sight which does not work with a socket bayonet, thus the P'1887 sword bayonet designed for the Mark IV rifle is really all that fits it -
MHIV_BandC_foresight_zpsfba0be64.jpg


Martini-Henry serial numbers were stamped into the front of the receiver body and/or the underside of the barrel (finding either of those necessitates removal of the forestock, of course) and/or the underside of the rear sight ladder .....

Bayonets were not matched to a particular rifle by serial number. Rather, the almost universal practice in British and Empire military forces was to assign a number at the unit level (i.e regiment of infantry, battery of artillery, etc.) to each "stand of arms" consisting of a rifle together with its bayonet and other related accoutrements, with at least the rifle and the bayonet being marked with both a unit designation and the stand of arms number.
 
GrantR said:
with at least the rifle and the bayonet being marked with both a unit designation and the stand of arms number
Click to expand...

So there should be at least a few dozen bayonets out there of a couple different models that may have the correct unit & stand number... long odds but not impossible. :)

Thanks!
 
Although not so fortunate myself, I know of a few people who at least have unit-matched rifle and bayonet combinations, but to locate both items from the same original stand of arms is rare indeed!
 
GrantR said:
Although not so fortunate myself, I know of a few people who at least have unit-matched rifle and bayonet combinations, but to locate both items from the same original stand of arms is rare indeed!
Click to expand...

no harm in trying :)

Hopefully he brings it out on Sunday & I can get some pics....
 
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