Small rifle primers for pistol
- Thread starter black sunshine
- Start date
Although I have not tried it myself, at one time it was popular for IPSC shooters using
HOT 38 Super loads to use SR primers as SP primers would not take the pressure.
I will follow this thread to see what others say as I have a few hundred SR primers
I would like to use for 9mm or 38 special.
HOT 38 Super loads to use SR primers as SP primers would not take the pressure.
I will follow this thread to see what others say as I have a few hundred SR primers
I would like to use for 9mm or 38 special.
as far as i know. small rifle and small pistol primers are the same size, the only difference i have heard is the rifle primers are made of a tougher material, so it would be slightly more difficult for a pistol firing pin to have enough weight and momentum behind it to all the time set off a rifle primer. i dont know if that is true. as i only load for rifle..
this is my exact predicament sr primers are in droves .. and cant find any sp primers . I will likely start to load some upp in any case .
ill just start very light and work up like alwase .
cant see there being a prob. the only prob is likely the other way around wear you might not get the best ignition. as ive personally expierianced with 223 and sp primers still fired fine, but noticed powder on the floor of the range after .
ill just start very light and work up like alwase .
cant see there being a prob. the only prob is likely the other way around wear you might not get the best ignition. as ive personally expierianced with 223 and sp primers still fired fine, but noticed powder on the floor of the range after .
The cup on small rifle primers are thicker than the cup on small pistol primers, using small pistol primers in a .223 fired in a AR15 could cause slam fires. Conversely using small rifle primers in a pistol could cause misfires, there is a reason why they are made differently.
Small pistol primer cup thickness .017 - for low pressure pistol cartridges.
Small rifle primer cup thickness .025 for high pressure rifle cartridges
(cups .020 and thinner should not be used in the AR15)
9 Luger 35,000 psi chamber pressure
.223 Rem 55,000 psi chamber pressure
CHOOSING THE RIGHT PRIMER - A PRIMER ON PRIMERS
http://www.sksboards.com/smf/index.php?topic=56422.0
Small pistol primer cup thickness .017 - for low pressure pistol cartridges.
Small rifle primer cup thickness .025 for high pressure rifle cartridges
(cups .020 and thinner should not be used in the AR15)
9 Luger 35,000 psi chamber pressure
.223 Rem 55,000 psi chamber pressure
CHOOSING THE RIGHT PRIMER - A PRIMER ON PRIMERS
http://www.sksboards.com/smf/index.php?topic=56422.0
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I tested some CCI 400 primers in my AR (.020) and it sprayed like crazy, everyone at the range wanted to try my "full auto M16" and wouldn't stop asking where I got it.....
/sarcasm
5-600 reloads into reloading for my AR using only CCI 400 primers I've never experienced a slam fire, I don't disagree that it COULD slam fire but I don't see any issue in trying it and if it works that's great.
MFS uses a "mil-spec" primer in their 9mm ammo, I experienced 2-3 light strikes out of 500, if you could live with that using SR primers instead of SP primers fill your boots..... i'd personaly wait for proper primers to come back into stock
as for pistol primers in a rifle cartridge.... no thanks, I personaly wouldn't even try it.
During a prior primer famine, the IPSC crowd tried Fiocchi SR primers in the .38 Supers but were unhappy with the results.
(My guess is they found the cups too thin).
I got most of a leftover "brick" of a 1000 for a good price.
I tried those primers in 9mmx19 in a Glock 17, they worked just fine in the reloads I prepared.
The Glock 17 will also ignite NATO-spec 9mmx19 ammunition, which has hard primer cups.
I would not recommend such primer substitution for max loads or for handguns with reduced hammer springs.
Standard advice is to re-develop your loadings, since such a primer substitution could also increase pressures.
The CCI 400 SR primer cups are thinner and designed for lower-pressure rifle loadings, so they would be worth looking at
first as a substitute for small pistol primers.
If you are concerned about reliable ignition, try just priming say 5 cases (no powder or projectile) and see if you can get them to fire.
Remember that primers are very loud, and just-primed cases will also tend to have the primers back out in a revolver,
which can slow down cylinder rotation via breech-face drag.
(My guess is they found the cups too thin).
I got most of a leftover "brick" of a 1000 for a good price.
I tried those primers in 9mmx19 in a Glock 17, they worked just fine in the reloads I prepared.
The Glock 17 will also ignite NATO-spec 9mmx19 ammunition, which has hard primer cups.
I would not recommend such primer substitution for max loads or for handguns with reduced hammer springs.
Standard advice is to re-develop your loadings, since such a primer substitution could also increase pressures.
The CCI 400 SR primer cups are thinner and designed for lower-pressure rifle loadings, so they would be worth looking at
first as a substitute for small pistol primers.
If you are concerned about reliable ignition, try just priming say 5 cases (no powder or projectile) and see if you can get them to fire.
Remember that primers are very loud, and just-primed cases will also tend to have the primers back out in a revolver,
which can slow down cylinder rotation via breech-face drag.
I have used small rifle in pistol ammo when out of small pistol. It works just fine in guns with full hammer power. But if the hammer spring has been reduced, poor ignition is the result. Small rifle primers work in all but one of my 9mm pistols but do not work in most of my 38Spls.
If you are not looking for large numbers and were born with some extra arms and legs Cabellas.ca has SP primers listed in stock @ $4.99 per 100. CCI
That works out to $49.99 per 1000 .. I guess that pretty much works out to not wanting to find them at that price .. At least they ship them at a reasonable price ..
The M16 had a slam fire problem when it was first introduced, Remington was loading the .223/5.56 ammunition with the 6 1/2 primer with a .020 cup thickness. The slam fires would happen when a single round was loaded in the chamber without the magazine in place to slow bolt closing velocity. The cure was to lighten the firing pin and go to thicker primers, mil-spec ammunition is loaded using primers with cups .025 thick and shorter anvils.
My buddies and I used to use small rifle primers in Supers and 9x21 back in the day for IPSC. Especially 9x21 due to the high pressures. Light strikes can be a problem with light hammer springs. Other than that, no issues.
I've used small magnum pistol primers in 30 M1 carbine rounds and in 357 Maximum rounds. Never an issue.
I tried some standard small pistol primers in the M1 Carbine as well but the primers were always pierced.
I've also used small rifle primers in pistol cartridges, like the 357 magnum, 38 Special and small pocket 45acp. Never had a problem with any of them. No misfires, no pressure signs etc.
Back in the day, it was often very difficult to come across reloading supplies of any sort. Especially if you lived in rural areas. We played with all sorts of combinations that would raise hackles these days.
There really isn't any reason to fool around with such things anymore. That may change drastically but at this point, trying to save a few pennies, without understanding what you are doing and the parameters of the components you are using is foolhardy.
If you decide to use small rifle primers in a handgun, reduce your load by 10% weight and try it with a few rounds. You will know right away what is good and what isn't.
Something to think about. When I used to have a Ruger 44mag autoloading rifle, the cartridges for it came in 20 round boxes. It didn't function reliably with the cartridges in 50 round boxes, intended for pistols. Dominion, loaded cartridges for the rifle and the pistols.
My old Saur & Sohn single action, which looked like the Herters offering, would digest the rifle fodder without a hiccup, other than it kicked like a mule and the hammer always was cocked in the quarter cocked position after each round. This didn't happen with the 50 round boxes of pistol ammo.
The above example, is only to warn you about maximum loads. BE CAREFUL. Likely, you won't blow a firearm up but you might damage it beyond repair. That Sauer, was compared against Ruger Blackhawks in the late sixties in blow up tests. The Ruger failed first. I was and still is a very robust revolver.
I tried some standard small pistol primers in the M1 Carbine as well but the primers were always pierced.
I've also used small rifle primers in pistol cartridges, like the 357 magnum, 38 Special and small pocket 45acp. Never had a problem with any of them. No misfires, no pressure signs etc.
Back in the day, it was often very difficult to come across reloading supplies of any sort. Especially if you lived in rural areas. We played with all sorts of combinations that would raise hackles these days.
There really isn't any reason to fool around with such things anymore. That may change drastically but at this point, trying to save a few pennies, without understanding what you are doing and the parameters of the components you are using is foolhardy.
If you decide to use small rifle primers in a handgun, reduce your load by 10% weight and try it with a few rounds. You will know right away what is good and what isn't.
Something to think about. When I used to have a Ruger 44mag autoloading rifle, the cartridges for it came in 20 round boxes. It didn't function reliably with the cartridges in 50 round boxes, intended for pistols. Dominion, loaded cartridges for the rifle and the pistols.
My old Saur & Sohn single action, which looked like the Herters offering, would digest the rifle fodder without a hiccup, other than it kicked like a mule and the hammer always was cocked in the quarter cocked position after each round. This didn't happen with the 50 round boxes of pistol ammo.
The above example, is only to warn you about maximum loads. BE CAREFUL. Likely, you won't blow a firearm up but you might damage it beyond repair. That Sauer, was compared against Ruger Blackhawks in the late sixties in blow up tests. The Ruger failed first. I was and still is a very robust revolver.
I ordered several thousand Sellier and Bellot pistol and small rifle primers from a sponsor a while back. They arrived, and all the boxes were the same. It says on the box that they can be used for both. Haven't actually fired any yet to see if there were any issues . . .
The previous owner of my first S&W Model 29 was a faller in Alaska and his load was 26.5 grains of 2400 and Federal Magnum Rifle primers. This load far exceeds anything reasonable!!!
One fired round could be ejected with the ejector but firing all 6 required a brass rod to punch each out individually.
It would be safe to assume that when confronted with a grizzly . . . reloading was not considered an option!
One fired round could be ejected with the ejector but firing all 6 required a brass rod to punch each out individually.
It would be safe to assume that when confronted with a grizzly . . . reloading was not considered an option!
For the last 2 decades,I been using SRP for my open gun from 38 super and lately my current 9 Major( 1385 fps).these are all out of spec load, way way out from SAAMI specs. .Never had a problem with ignition even using 15lbs wolff and 17 ISMI main spring. One thing to note, my gun was built for this with a fully supported chamber. Start from the min.powder charge and go from there.
It all depends on which batch of primers you get at the time.
Like everything else, there is a plus or minus factor ruled into their manufacturing specs. I've had some S&B primers that were actually quite soft. Same for PRIV primers, which are noted for their hardness as well.
I've noticed, that Winchester LR and SR primers could easily give S&B a run for their money on hardness.
It isn't so much hardness as thickness of the metal used to form the cups that will give you a problem.
