First Range trip, Troubleshooting, Pointers ?

HKMark23

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Took my new Charleville to the range yesterday. As a first effort, using 70gr of FFG with FFFG in the priming pan I was able to land 5 shots inside a torso shaped IPSC target at 50 yds. I take this to be a fair performance but hope to improve with practice. What should I expect to achieve at that range, "pie plate" accuracy ?

Anyhow, there were problems. After my initial 5 rounds, I started getting FTF's. The flash pan would ignite reliably but not the chamber charge. This happened twice. I corrected the problem by waiting 3 min, tamping the charge with my ramrod again, re-priming and firing. This worked but I'd like to think this isn't normal.

I was loading using some of those round pillow ticking patches which I had dampened with (Windshield washer fluid / cutting oil) Moose Milk. They were good and damp but not dripping wet. I brushed my pan and checked the flash hole with a nipple (wire) pick between every shot. I was using one of those little 3 gr brass dispensers for priming and it seemed to be gumming up toward the end of my efforts. My brass powder flask wasn't the smooth pouring instrument I had expected either. Do these items need to be degrease d before using ? They are new. Yesterday was heavily overcast in our area and though conditions weren't wet when I was shooting, it began raining just as I was leaving the range.

Once home, I removed the lock and barrel, cleaned both with hot soapy water, dried/ patched everything dry and coated/ lubed everything with Kroil before reassembly.

Tips and pointers, especially with regard to the FTF situation would be most welcome.

Thanx.
 
After every shot or 2 use a vent pick "little piece of wire to clear the touch hole", sometimes some crud can fall off the bottom of the frizzen and cover the touch hole.

Also prime more, eyebrows will grow back but a flash in the pan is forever.

I have never used damp patches so maybe that is it, the more you use her the more proficient you will become.

A light wipe of high pressure grease under the barrel and you will not have to remove it every time you shoot.


The charleville can be a real spike driver!

Lets see a picture of your musket!!
 
I'm going to recommend you get a can of this for patch lube: http://www.trackofthewolf.com/Categories/PartDetail.aspx/181/1/MINK-OIL it won't cause issues like water based lubes will.

More powder in the pan will work as long as it's not covering the touch hole, I use two presses on that little pan primer (6gr) and that seems to be most reliable. You might also try wiping your pan and frizen with a dry cloth after 5 shots or so.
 
I use almost exclusively wet, water based patches and have never had any problems with them in terms of fouling the powder. I think your flash hole is crudding up with powder residue from firing. On a sporting rifle that is more or less prevented by using a vent liner but on a Charleyville you might try using a tip cleaner intended for cutting torches. It has the advantage of not being tapered and they usually come in a number of diameters so that you can match one to the size of your vent

cheers mooncoon
 
Lets see a picture of your musket!!

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SHES A BEAUTY!!

So pristine and perfect WOW, This musket will give your family GENERATIONS of service.

Keep your eye on the dixie site, they inevitably will have a sale on heat treated frizzens and spring sets those will be the only things youll need in the years to come.

Great musket you have there!



Heres a picture of mine, shes seen some serious service in reenactments and live shooting over the years.

I use the largest black English flints I can find, at 1/2 #### it is about 2mm from the frizzen face "grinds down fairly fast though" and After 2 or 3 shots I jam as much prime I can get into the pan "SAME POWDER USED AS THE MAIN CHARGE 2F", after shes filthy she might have a slight hang but shell ALWAYS fire!

After I clean her I wipe the stock down with 50/50 raw linseed oil and mineral spirits, and if shes going in the safe or not being used for awhile I give the bore and surfaces a light wipe with high presure grease.

 
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I have never used damp patches so maybe that is it, the more you use her the more proficient you will become.

A light wipe of high pressure grease under the barrel and you will not have to remove it every time you shoot.

I'd read about using the "Moose Milk" patches somewhere so thought I'd give it a try. I'll get some HP grease and try it under the barrel. Do you put it under your Lock too ?

I'm going to recommend you get a can of this for patch lube: http://www.trackofthewolf.com/Catego...181/1/MINK-OIL it won't cause issues like water based lubes will.

More powder in the pan will work as long as it's not covering the touch hole, I use two presses on that little pan primer (6gr) and that seems to be most reliable. You might also try wiping your pan and frizen with a dry cloth after 5 shots or so.

I'll get Track to toss in a can or two of the mink grease with my next order, (I need a blanket case for my toy). I used a couple or 3 pumps of that priming flask too. Three pumps only fills the end 1/3 of the pan. I always get a flash. I'll bring a rag next time, the tip of the primer dispenser getting gummy has me thinking this is moisture related. It was a very humid / overcast day and actually began raining as I drove out of the range.

on a Charleyville you might try using a tip cleaner intended for cutting torches. It has the advantage of not being tapered and they usually come in a number of diameters so that you can match one to the size of your vent

I just happen to have one or two of those. I'll toss one in my range bag, thanx.

Thanks for your help guys. I have a few firearms already but this is my first experience with BP other than to shoot a few from a rifle a shooter at our local BP club was kind enough to lend me. Like pistol, rifle, reloading and anything else to do with shooting, I can see this is going to be addictive :).
 
Most of your issues can probably be blamed on high humidity. That will cause powder to gum up and stick to things.

As far as the FTF I am in the habit of always using the vent pick before every shot and very seldom have just a flash in the pan.

Keep at it! Try the different suggestions and you will find what works best for you with a bit of time and practice. Groups will shrink plenty too.
 
“The Muzzle-Loading Cap Lock Rifle”, by Ned H. Roberts, mentions that the target shooters using Sperm Whale oil for their leather, cloth or paper patches.
I found that a mix of approximately 60/40 Ballistol and water made a very good lube for a .54 calibre Pedersoli Hawken.
Ballistol is water soluable.
I had a friend pre-cut patches from 0.010” material on his drill press.
Next I use a musket cap can and spiral the patches for easy pick up.
The Ballistol water mix is poured into the can to the top, and allowed to soak in, more is added until there is no more absorption.
The evening before the shoot I pour and squeeze of the extra, leaving damp patches reading for loading.
I found this makes loading the 40th shot as easy as the second shot to load.
The Ballistol water mix is used after the shoot to clean the barrel prior to heading home, at home the usual bucket of water and Ballistol oil is used to finish the cleaning.
 
Hi HKMARK, no I dont use HP grease under the lock, just a bit of breakfree, but if shes not going to be used for a period of time it would not hurt.

I like the hp grease under the tube as it just stays put and you do not need alot.

I have fired my Charleville while being rained on all day after she was poorly cleaned the night before, you will find that big lock with a big English black flint will be 100% reliable after you become really acquainted with her!!

Its a beautiful arm you have there!
 
Hi HKMARK, no I dont use HP grease under the lock, just a bit of breakfree, but if shes not going to be used for a period of time it would not hurt.

I like the hp grease under the tube as it just stays put and you do not need alot.

I have fired my Charleville while being rained on all day after she was poorly cleaned the night before, you will find that big lock with a big English black flint will be 100% reliable after you become really acquainted with her!!

Its a beautiful arm you have there!

Thanx Musketfire. Speaking of flints, as you may see from my bottom photo, the one I'm using isn't one of the big English ones, though I do now have them. The flint I used was produced by me from a small supply of flint rocks my gunsmith was kind enough to contribute so I could learn something about flint knapping. Proud as I am of this first effort, I may have to concede that this undersized and rudely shaped brown stone could be contributing to my problem. It does ignite the FFFFG in my pan but I'll swap it out nonetheless now that I have the big English ones in hand. "Something else to practice".
 
In all honesty, I just use the extra large ones track of the wolf carries they work excellent "though some arrive in nearly unusable shape" and I use a bit of leather to hold it in the jaws.

After every shot I ALWAYS check the flint and the touch hole and then wipe the frizzen, Im real proficient at it now due to all the practise endless volleys at reenactments allows!

For prime I use the same powder that I charge the main load with and no misfires, if your out in the wetness wipe/blow out the prime every now and then and re prime

I also use paper cartridges as it just seems to work right!


Your musket is really something to cherish shes a real beauty, soon you will need a tunic,tricorn,gators and cartridge box. ;)
 
“The Muzzle-Loading Cap Lock Rifle”, by Ned H. Roberts, mentions that the target shooters using Sperm Whale oil for their leather, cloth or paper patches.
I found that a mix of approximately 60/40 Ballistol and water made a very good lube for a .54 calibre Pedersoli Hawken.
Ballistol is water soluable.
I had a friend pre-cut patches from 0.010” material on his drill press.
Next I use a musket cap can and spiral the patches for easy pick up.
The Ballistol water mix is poured into the can to the top, and allowed to soak in, more is added until there is no more absorption.
The evening before the shoot I pour and squeeze of the extra, leaving damp patches reading for loading.
I found this makes loading the 40th shot as easy as the second shot to load.
The Ballistol water mix is used after the shoot to clean the barrel prior to heading home, at home the usual bucket of water and Ballistol oil is used to finish the cleaning.

Perhaps more shooting will prove the solution I've made by mixing windshield washer fluid, (actually cheaper than water) and water soluble cutting oil, (25 bux a gal at Princess Auto) unsuitable. I did notice, however, that patching my barrel became noticeably easier the more I shot, even though the musket is still new. I've now got enough cutting oil on hand to produce about a dozen gallons of this home made patch lube so unless some problem develops I should be sorted for awhile. The volumes this oil is sold in is perhaps the downside of this method. I'll never use it all.

The recipe I almost copied called for "Murphy's Oil Soap" too, but I didn't use any of that.
 
In his book "Black Powder Loading Manual" Sam Fadala writes that you should always block the touchhole before dropping a powder charge down the barrel. The idea being that you want a clear channel for the flame from the pan powder.
 
First realize that the learning curve with flint guns is longer than with almost every other but you are on the right track. Big locks require big flints but should spark reliably. Make sure your frizzen is grease free and flint is securely clamped for best sparks. Your Moose Milk lube should be fine and I too use it and find the bore seems to load more smoothly after 2 or 3 shots unless I stop shooting for a few minutes on a hot dry day. Save the Mink oil for sub-freezing temperatures. Damp weather keeps bore fouling soft but plays havoc with flint ignition because the fouling absorbs moisture from the air and creates a black goop that mucks up everything, including the pan and touch hole. Best/fastest ignition will be with the shortest tunnel between the pan and main charge so that is why a flash-hole liner like White Lightnin' is popular: it is coned from the back side so the passage is only about a millimetre long. It is incandescent heat from the pan flash that ignites the main charge so damp powder or fouling in and around the flash hole can negate the best pan flash under the damp conditions you had that day. Most of the musket shooters I know have a flash hole at least 1/16" diameter and often more, which can be a problem for nearby shooters unless, like you have, there is a flash deflector on the pan. As for group size, muskets weren't intended to shoot small groups but many Trade Gun smoothbore shooters can get 50 yd groups down to 4" and sometimes better than that. Try different patch thicknesses or try a card wad and lubed filler wad under the ball then experiment with patch thickness or even no patch but bore-diameter ball over the wads. Don't despair - you are on the right track so experiment and read up on the literature around smoothbores and accuracy. Good luck!
 
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