best nr black rifle?

J996 said:
Not this again, let me know when the XCR proves itself during years of abuse in military service around the world. You simply cannot comare it to SIG (now SAN) and IWI/IMI it just does not fly.
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XCR has not had the opportunity to prove itself in battle, like 95% of all other weapons. It has proven itself elsewhere, like most other companies. The USA has been using there current weapon platform for years, and by them canceling there last search for another platform it looks like it will continue to do so. Also, we are not going to battle, or crawling through mud and water, getting sand blown into our guns. Most of the guns people have on here are safe queens, or get out to the range on weekends. Some do 3 gun competitions with them but that is still a far cry from battle, and the reliability of the guns we use are well beyond out necessities. The XCR might be slightly out done by the SA in reliability, but only in ways that are unnecessary, like I said none of us plan on pulling our guns from a bucket of liquid nitrogen and going to battle. Both platforms are very reliable, along with the others listed in here, so pick what one you like the most or that is in your price range and get to the range and shoot it!
 
New solution: I will build the Canadian Foriegn Legion, we will take our various black rifles on tours of Mali, Sudan, DRC, and Yemen. We'll youtube the entire thing and put the rifles through combat. Upon coming home we'll make millions recommending odd accessories from premium manufacturers and drop hinting posts on other forums that anyone who disagrees with our assessment is cowardly.

Then everyone gets to host tactical courses and tell war stories.
 
Onagoth said:
I'm sure Swiss arms is a great rifle, but in terms of value for the money, I think there may be a more inexpensive solution
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When you consider the useful life of the rifle, like how many cycles the action, bcg, mags etc can handle and how many rounds the barrel and piston tube can handle per shot its one of the cheapest rifles on the market. So for value its great value, capital cost, it appears to be expensive. Its edges out the TAVOR, not be cause it functions better but because its easier to clean and lasts a bit longer, making it a cheaper rifle to own.
 
Love my Tavor but have very little experience with other NR black rifles. I've shot Swissarms classic green and it was very nice, but between the two I prefer the Tavor.

There is no real answer to this question, it's Ford vs Chev vs Ram trucks, or Mac vs Windows; varies from person to person.
 
If you have a few grand to spend , get one of these ! Heres mine ..

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mattf87 said:
The XCR might be slightly out done by the SA in reliability!
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Given the OPs criteria the XCR seems best suited for his needs, that or a AR180B, but I think the SA would more than "slightly" outdo the XCR in reliability. I again, refer to the tests posted earlier. The XCR would fall well short of the SA under the same test circumstances. And your right, it isnt battle tested, as there is obviously not one single professional out there willing to put there life on the line carrying a XCR into harms way.

I like the XCR, for what I would use it for (hunting, making noise in gravel pits) it would more than suite my needs, but there is a reason nobody is packing them on the two way range.
 
b_w. said:
Super easy. Just remove the set screw and the barrel comes out. Lots of guys have trouble with accuracy because of this. Short barrels are not available from the factory, only the NR lengths.
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I think they are actually available from factory , it's just that Wolverine has decided it won't stock them. They are available in the states just hard to come by.

+1 on XCR but I would love to get a Swiiss Green as well.
 
hbean said:
Nothing new on a subject that has been asked on a monthly basis.

Swiss Arm design has been around for more than 40 years, so they have plenty of opportunity to fix any problem that they have, yes they are expensive and it gets more so when you start updating to modern standards with rail handguard and AR lowers.

Tavor is design that is based on lessons Isreali's have learn from 50 years of continuous warfare, it is a compact bullpup design, easy to handle, but not a lot of people can change that easily to a different way of handling a rifle and customization to individual taste is very limited.

XCR is a marriage between AK reliability and AR modularity by a small and relatively new company with limited resources, but they are making strides in quality control and improvement overtime and they are backed by a Canadian distributor with impeccable track record.

Keltec rifles are designed with convenience and simplicity in mind, it is very light and meant to be a pick up and go rifle. because of that some people think they are cheaply made.

CZ or VZ is another old rifle design with a State sponsor development budget, simple reliable and in service with lot of countries around the world.

The MR1 is European design that tries to retain the traditional rifle ergonomics, it is targeted for a modern sporting market, but without the military or tactical connection while still try to offer some modern features like AR mags.

Do yourself a favor and set a budget, and pick a rifle that is close to that price, because all the rifles are more than capable doing the job. if you like it you can always sell it and buy something else or if you call yourself a true Gunnutz you will just end up buy all of them eventually.
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Quoting because this is the most unbiased, accurate response. The more you pay, the more you get. Start with a cz if money is an issue.
 
ok !!! the question is ,,, "best nr black rifle after swiss arm...."

Swiss Arm is alone, nothing come close .......sorry for you dreamer :)



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daniel_250r said:
Wait for the type 97 its a red rifle and a black rifle why pay more for a tavor the type 97 is only 1000 and takes ar mags
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And is non ambi, can't accept optics and still suffers the same issues as all the other bullpup rifles. Oh, and they're not in country yet. I'm curious to give one a go but I won't hold me breathe until they're in country.

TDC
 
@1ClickWrong, I don't know what you were trying to prove posting 2 vids of people shooting a SA. Any gun can do what they accomplished there, but you are free to your opinion for sure.
 
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