what really makes the pistol so accurate?

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masa

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hey guys,

sorry for being such a newb. I have a couple kimbers, one sig 1911 and a SW 1911.
all are really accurate guns. i can get poi at poa easily at 20 yards with my eclipse.
some other guns, not so much(off by 2 inches). sights look great. getting really good at pulling
the trigger without pulling or pushing the gun.

so what really makes the gun so accurate? any specific reason why i shoot really well with a couple
guns, and off by a little on other guns?

all guns claim to have match grade barrels. should i just keep practicing or is there something i am missing
that really makes the gun hit on mark? the only complaint i have, with any of the guns, is probably my SW1911
that rips up my hand near the beavertail and the sig for having a gi style guide rod(and that stupid plunge lever).
though i am sure that doesn't contribute to my decrease in aim... or is it?

feedback would be greatly appreciated!:wave:
 
IMO circumstances such as you describe are likely more down to you than the pistols. I suspect that the accurate ones just 'fit' you better and a part of it will also be attributable to what's between your ears; you know one gun is accurate therefore it is. A few years ago I had a Glock 17 that I was certain was defective as I couldn't hit anything with it - funny thing was that everyone else (including my then teenage daughter) shot lights out with the darn thing LOL.
 
haha, you know what? i was pretty sure "I AM" the contributing factor in why i
shoot off with certain guns; i just kind of needed someone to assure me whether it
was me or something else that can really effect my shooting.

all my kimbers shoot more or less the same, except the one
that shoots exceptionally well.

you're definitely right on the feel of the gun as well; my SW is a great shot, but after a few mags, it chews up my palm, between my
index and thumb and i feel i am not gripping it as well afterwards. thanks for your input
 
Tomochan said:
IMO circumstances such as you describe are likely more down to you than the pistols. I suspect that the accurate ones just 'fit' you better and a part of it will also be attributable to what's between your ears; you know one gun is accurate therefore it is. A few years ago I had a Glock 17 that I was certain was defective as I couldn't hit anything with it - funny thing was that everyone else (including my then teenage daughter) shot lights out with the darn thing LOL.
Click to expand...

Can you help enlighten me a bit more? Like the OP, I am a noob and shot a P-07 Duty. I can get it within 2-3 inches grouping at about 20 yards. Then i shot a USP and all hell broke loose. I aim at the center and they all land just a bit outside the outer diameter - 5-7 o'clock marks. Seeing that, I aimed at the 12 o clock outer diameter and I land 3 shots in a horizontal line with the second bullet hitting the bullseye....what gives? Me or the gun?
 
I have a similar issue: with my Ruger Mk.1 bull barrel, I can put 10/10 rounds on paper at 50m, but with my Shadow at the same distance, I'm all over the map. Why should a centrefire pistol be so much less accurate?
 
Grip. Sight alignment. Trigger control.

Each gun has a different feel. Generally one or more of the three above changes from gun to gun. Those imputs impact accuracy more than anything with the gun.

Analyze the imputs you put into the gun.
 
stevebc said:
I have a similar issue: with my Ruger Mk.1 bull barrel, I can put 10/10 rounds on paper at 50m, but with my Shadow at the same distance, I'm all over the map. Why should a centrefire pistol be so much less accurate?
Click to expand...

Its not the gun, its you. If you haven't mastered the fundamentals, you won't see the results you desire.

TDC
 
SteelCap said:
Can you help enlighten me a bit more? Like the OP, I am a noob and shot a P-07 Duty. I can get it within 2-3 inches grouping at about 20 yards. Then i shot a USP and all hell broke loose. I aim at the center and they all land just a bit outside the outer diameter - 5-7 o'clock marks. Seeing that, I aimed at the 12 o clock outer diameter and I land 3 shots in a horizontal line with the second bullet hitting the bullseye....what gives? Me or the gun?
Click to expand...

well, hang on just a minute. there's a difference between ACCURACY and PRECISION.

accuracy = bullets landing where the sight is pointing but NOT necessarily in a nice tight group
precision = bullets landing in a tight group even if NOT where you are aiming (assuming you maintain aim at the same spot)

in your case, it sounds like the HK USP was precise, but not accurate - with YOUR eyes.

i think precision is the better term to use - and a better & more valuable characteristic of a gun - since if the group is tight but offset, all you have to do is move the sights OR change where/how you aim if the sights are not movable (or it's not your gun so you wouldn't adjust the sights anyways)

precision%20vs%20accuracy%20slides_Page_6.jpg
 
BP7 said:
well, hang on just a minute. there's a difference between ACCURACY and PRECISION.

accuracy = bullets landing where the sight is pointing but NOT necessarily in a nice tight group
precision = bullets landing in a tight group even if NOT where you are aiming (assuming you maintain aim at the same spot)

in your case, it sounds like the HK USP was precise, but not accurate - with YOUR eyes.

i think precision is the better term to use - and a better & more valuable characteristic of a gun - since if the group is tight but offset, all you have to do is move the sights OR change where/how you aim if the sights are not movable (or it's not your gun so you wouldn't adjust the sights anyways)

precision%20vs%20accuracy%20slides_Page_6.jpg
Click to expand...

Great post BP7, pictures make it easy for me to understand. :)
 
Generally, self-loading pistols with actions in which the barrels move (the 1911 and most of the 9mm pistols and the higher autoloading calibers) have to realign parts after a shot very precisely to deliver bullets very precisely. Modern, mass-produced self-loaders can be very accurate, but often require some hand fitting to produce the highest accuracy. Some manufacturers produce pistols which will fire reliably, but in which the assembly of parts can shift quite a bit during shooting. That's why there are gunsmiths who make good livings "accurizing" self-loading pistols. Self-loaders with barrels that do not move (.22s, the Benelli 9mm, and some others) are inherently more accurate. In actually shooting is where the ability of the shooter makes a difference. Returning a pistol that has recoiled, to a good point of aim, requires training and experience. A good shooter with a 1911-type pistol will shoot more accurately than can a poor shooter with a .22. Really good shooters practice a lot.
 
awesome diagram, BP7. i guess i have to work on my precision a little bit more.
maybe play a bit more with how my hands grip the gun.

i felt i shot a lot better, and controlled the muzzle easier with my supporting hand on
the trigger guard.
 
Masa the pistol requires many .many rounds for consistency and accuracy as displayed in BP7's post. If you are more familiar with Rifle marksmanship, and are new to pistols, I always use this analogy. If I could make you proficient, say a marksman rating with a long gun in say 1000 rounds of use, we would have to send 10,000 rounds down range while working diligently on your fundamental marksmanship to obtain an equivalent proficiency in a pistol.

It's all about three things, .....strong repeatable grip and trigger control, strong repeatable grip and trigger control, and the third and last the last is a strong repeatable grip and trigger control.

Most people barely achieve even close to marksman rating with a cente-fire rifle because they shoot usually out to only 100 yards and less with a long gun that allows you three points of contact and has a great, long easy to align sight picture.

They then take a firearm that is controlled completely in the hand/hands and fire out to 25/50 meters and wonder why they are so bad compared to their rifle.

In fact they are probably getting quite good with the pistol at 25/50 meters using the 10 to 1 ratio I use to compare across the board on both firearms type, and are actually quite bad with a rifle. "Yea buddy,... will I can shoot 2" groups at 100 with my rifle!" I'd say, "will I didn't see you do that standing for ten rounds, you were benching it and a pistol is fired 99.97% off hand standing!!"

Take the rifle out to 500 meters, 10 times further than your pistol, now at actual "trying" rifle distances with an iron sighted rifle,.... and see how you do.


Buy lots of rounds, make them count,... work on the fundamentals over and over, it will come and you will be very pleased.
People who have many years experience with long guns become discouraged with hand guns initially till they have the 10 to 1 comparison against their rifle finesse off -hand standing compared..
 
stevebc said:
I have a similar issue: with my Ruger Mk.1 bull barrel, I can put 10/10 rounds on paper at 50m, but with my Shadow at the same distance, I'm all over the map. Why should a centrefire pistol be so much less accurate?
Click to expand...

You don't fear the recoil of the Ruger, therefore you shoot it better.
 
There will be lots of advice, including mine :p , but in the end remember one thing:

Everyone has a different body: firearm weight, weight ratio, firing design, trigger (in all aspects: pull, weight, distance, pull distance, size, etc) and grip (again, all aspects) will lend itself to a certain shooter. I have seen a low accuracy, low precision shooter turn into a high accuracy, low precision shooter by changing the grips on a 1911; and then move to a high accuracy, high precision shooter by changing the trigger length.

I am not discounting any other concept, least of all "strong repeatable grip and trigger control". However, when the gun fits the "strong repeatable grip and trigger control" is easier to do. :yingyang:
 
BP7 said:
well, hang on just a minute. there's a difference between ACCURACY and PRECISION.

accuracy = bullets landing where the sight is pointing but NOT necessarily in a nice tight group
precision = bullets landing in a tight group even if NOT where you are aiming (assuming you maintain aim at the same spot)

in your case, it sounds like the HK USP was precise, but not accurate - with YOUR eyes.

i think precision is the better term to use - and a better & more valuable characteristic of a gun - since if the group is tight but offset, all you have to do is move the sights OR change where/how you aim if the sights are not movable (or it's not your gun so you wouldn't adjust the sights anyways)

precision%20vs%20accuracy%20slides_Page_6.jpg
Click to expand...

Wow. Thank you for this explanation. Makes sense now.
 
haha! well, just to be clear - the image is NOT MINE. it's just one i found online, and linked to it. whoever made it should get credit for creating the image itself. but my explanation is mine ;)
 
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