416 ttsx

thumper1

thumper1

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Hey everybody this might be the wrong forum but its worth a try.

I loaded up a bunch of 350gr TTSX for my 416 Ruger to use for bear/moose season and I can't get them to group worth a s@#t what am I doing wrong? I'm using 75gr of varget and their coming out at just over 2500fps should I slow them down or god forbid speed them up ( just the thought makes me cringe). I've read that Barnes bullets perfer lower speeds?
 
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dam the energy @ 350 gr. going/2500 fps-wow. I wouldn't worry about slowing them down a bit ,was it lead sled tested or ouch -shoulder, any chance it could be a flinch?
 
I was just using a sand bag off the bench It might be a flinch but I'm pretty familiar with heavy recoil from my buddy's 460wby. I might just give it a day or two let my shoulder get back to normal and try it again.
 
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I have used 400 gr TSX in my Rigby (100 grs H4831)- they group extremely well, but act too much like a solid for my liking. On buff they are fine, on bigger thin skin critters - not so much. But they were very accurate at 2400 ft/s.

Check the OAL with a guage and/or set them in and out slightly --- what kind of groups are you getting?

May be a flinch - just saying - its not hard to do sometimes until you get used to things with that rifle.
 
No you guys are right it maybe a flinch that's what I'm starting to think it was. My OAL was 3.940 just short enough to fit in my mag but I'll try seating back a bit more and see if that works as well as trying a lead sled as mentioned.
 
I have found that sometimes these barnes bullets like way more jump to the lands than seems proper, something to try. Lead sled's work great for load testing, just don't use too much weight. Usually just the sled or at most one bag of shot is all you need.
 
Just went to the range the other day with a friend who was doing load development with his .416 Ruger Alaskan with 350 grain TSX. I think it was 71 grains of Varget getting just over 2400 fps and grouping under an inch that was the best load.
 
Do you know what his COAL was?



cam1936 said:
Just went to the range the other day with a friend who was doing load development with his .416 Ruger Alaskan with 350 grain TSX. I think it was 71 grains of Varget getting just over 2400 fps and grouping under an inch that was the best load.
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Isn't 2500 a fairly mild load for that combo? I used to use 350gr X in a .416 RM and, while I don't have my notes here, I believe they were chugging along at +2600 fps. IIRC I was using RL15 and H4895.

What kind of groups are you getting? Have you tried shooting off shooting sticks? At 2500fps those bullets will be under 2000 fps by 200-225 yards. Even a 2" group at 100 should be ok for 200 to 225 yard shots.
 
I was just looking at some reloading data and you can get 2600fps out of a Barnes X but thats pretty close if not a max load for the old girl! or so the book says!




1899 said:
Isn't 2500 a fairly mild load for that combo? I used to use 350gr X in a .416 RM and, while I don't have my notes here, I believe they were chugging along at +2600 fps. IIRC I was using RL15 and H4895.

What kind of groups are you getting? Have you tried shooting off shooting sticks? At 2500fps those bullets will be under 2000 fps by 200-225 yards. Even a 2" group at 100 should be ok for 200 to 225 yard shots.
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Hmm, anything against trying a nosler partition or accubond? Nothing against the TTSX, ive just heard sometimes they dont like to open up as much. Maybe your rifle dosnt like them or wants a higher velocity.

ARe you shooting a ruger alaskan? I was wondering how they are to shoot, and Ive seen a few of them come up for sale, Im guessing the recoil must be towards the high end of the scale for the average shooters comfort level.

Got a lead sled? Next time your out that should give you some indication if it has more to do with a flinch.
 
The bullets them self are opening up very nicely just like a barns should it's just not grouping like it should last group I shot was around 3 inch's at 100 m with 75gr of varget so I just loaded some down to 71gr of varget to see if that helps with a COAL of 3.890.

The alaskan is fun to shoot it's got a hell of a bark though especially sitting down at the bench probley best off standing up to sight it in




cody c said:
Hmm, anything against trying a nosler partition or accubond? Nothing against the TTSX, ive just heard sometimes they dont like to open up as much. Maybe your rifle dosnt like them or wants a higher velocity.

ARe you shooting a ruger alaskan? I was wondering how they are to shoot, and Ive seen a few of them come up for sale, Im guessing the recoil must be towards the high end of the scale for the average shooters comfort level.

Got a lead sled? Next time your out that should give you some indication if it has more to do with a flinch.
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I run the 400 gr tsx in my 416 ruger Alaskan and it shoots MOA or a tiny bit better off the bench all the way out to 300 yards. They open up awesome and hold together even going through green trees with 98% or better weight retention. I'm running TAC rifle powder with awesome results.
 
thumper1 said:
Hey everybody this might be the wrong forum but its worth a try.

I loaded up a bunch of 350gr TTSX for my 416 Ruger to use for bear/moose season and I can't get them to group worth a s@#t what am I doing wrong? I'm using 75gr of varget and their coming out at just over 2500fps should I slow them down or god forbid speed them up ( just the thought makes me cringe). I've read that Barnes bullets perfer lower speeds?
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The simple solution is to switch to a different bullet if the TTSXs won't shoot in your rifle. Are these the only bullets you've loaded for this rifle? Does it shoot well with lead core bullets? If it shoots conventional bullets well, the math is simple, use the bullet that shoots. I was shooting 350 gr Xs at 2850 from my Rigby, so I don't think your accuracy issue is due to excessive velocity.

But perhaps we need to take a step back and ensure all is right with your rifle. Ensure the action screws are tight, ensure the stock is not cracked, and that the bedding surfaces show even bearing. Ensure your scope rings fasten tightly to receiver and that the ring screws are fastened snugly to the scope tube, and that there is no indication of movement. Have you proven the scope on another rifle, to ensure it holds zero? Is the ocular of the scope so far behind the cocking piece that you're scared of getting hit in recoil? The trouble with Ruger's integral bases are that there isn't much latitude for how the scope is mounted, and some variables have very long eye pieces which exasperates the problem as is illustrated here on a .375 Alaskan. On a hard kicker, that scope could be an inch forward of its mounted position.



If all of this checks out, you could try a different powder, but my experience is that an accurate rifle usually shoots any reasonable load pretty well. That leaves changing to another bullet. I had good luck with the Speer 350 gr Magtip. At one time X bullets were said to quickly foul barrels and degrade accuracy. Since the advent of the banded series of bullets, that criticism seems to have gone away, but if your barrel appears to be badly fouled, you could clean it and try grouping it again.
 
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Hi Thumber1,

I'm curious about the oal's you've listed in post 5 and 13. Are you indeed loading to 3.94" and 3.89" oal? This would mean a box length of about 4" and a loooong freebore. Is the rifle a Hawkeye?

The Barnes bullet is 1.6" long so with your oal, the bullet is only into the case neck by about 1/4". I wonder if this might be creating alignment issues which might influence accuracy.

Anyway, as mentioned, just curious.
 
When I was loading up the first batch I was keeping an eye on the OAL and seated the bullet to where it just fit in the mag or so I thought i'll double check Thanks Mauser98 and Boomer as well I'll check the rifle out as well I dont think its the scope as I've had this scope on every thing from my 257wby to my 375 ruger that I used to have but hey you never know it may have gotten rattled. its a Redfeild Revelution 4-12x40 and it sits about like the scope pictured so that might be my prob the only time i'm a little worried about the scope getting my eye is when i'm sitting but standing its perfect.



Mauser98 said:
Hi Thumber1,

I'm curious about the oal's you've listed in post 5 and 13. Are you indeed loading to 3.94" and 3.89" oal? This would mean a box length of about 4" and a loooong freebore. Is the rifle a Hawkeye?

The Barnes bullet is 1.6" long so with your oal, the bullet is only into the case neck by about 1/4". I wonder if this might be creating alignment issues which might influence accuracy.

Anyway, as mentioned, just curious.
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ohhhh yes it is a hawkeye Alaskan




Mauser98 said:
Hi Thumber1,

I'm curious about the oal's you've listed in post 5 and 13. Are you indeed loading to 3.94" and 3.89" oal? This would mean a box length of about 4" and a loooong freebore. Is the rifle a Hawkeye?

The Barnes bullet is 1.6" long so with your oal, the bullet is only into the case neck by about 1/4". I wonder if this might be creating alignment issues which might influence accuracy.

Anyway, as mentioned, just curious.
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BigUglyMan said:
You need bigger than a .416" hole through the vitals?
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Of course, according to some that hole needs to be at least .458" for moose hunting....preferably with 50cal BMG for optimum result.
Once about 10 years ago me and my hunting buddy were hunting mule deer high in the mountain at origin of Dead Man Creek 60k west of Kamloops and we met two hunters one of whom was carying 458WM b/c "nothing else gives him more assurance".
 
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The hole size may or may not matter.

I hammered at least 4 large African soft skin species in the heart/lung. With one Kudu, it was getting dusk than dark when the shot finally occured. That thing kept getting up and going further and further in to the scrub. I swore at myself for not taking out a shoulder or something structural.

Then it was full of energy, wobbling, but still going on adreniline. 2 more through the chest and it finally went down. You could hear the rounds whistling into the dark as they passed through. Then it was Dark - and the critter almost gone into the mist.

Same story (not dark though thankfully) with a waterbuck and 2 others.... It changed my view of the TSX, in the bigger bores at least.

I had the 416 for my buffalo back up rifle, where I suspect it would have done wonders.

I figure it needed something softer -maybe Partition, maybe a Swift ....for the thin skin critters.

Last time out, I used a 9.3x74R with 286 Partitions and one shot in the same front chest area and down the big critters went. No muss,...... no chasing.

My 2 cents.
 
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