Long story short, I drove 100km to pick up some primers and CCI 250 large rifle Magnum primers were all they had. If I use these in mid-range loads in my .303 and 7.62x54r is my wife going to have to plan a funeral? The only powder I use is H-4895. .303 load is 38.4gr with 150 Hornady SST. The 7.62R load is 42.6gr with 150gr Hornady SST. Thanks.
Large Rifle Magnum primers in non-magnum chamberings.
- Thread starter davemccarthy707
- Start date
That's good to know. Thanks for the info.
It must be the advertising hype. Otherwise, how could so many shooters get so much wrong information, or lack of information, on primers!
If primers are tested in a lab, some will show more, and/or longer, fire than others. Usually it is the magnum primers that show as being the hottest.
But in real life, there is no real difference between standard and magnum primers, either in rifle or pistols. That is, a hand loader is unable to detect which primer it is, that is in his cartridge.
Some will say that you "Must" use a magnum primer with powder such as H4831 and some ball powders. Let's look at the facts. War surplus powders, including H4831 and the various Hodgdon ball powders, were on the market and hand loaded very extensively, for fifteen years before magnum primers were invented! IMR ball powders had been around a lot longer than that, all being lit with standard primers.
When magnum primers came along, we tried them. And since then I have used them interchangeably in rifles and in 357 and 44 magnum revolvers, and have been unable to detect any difference in the loads, of whether they were fired up by a standard, or a magnum primer.
I have chronographed identical, hot loads, of both rifle and revolver, and was unable to tell by the chrono results, which loads had the magnum primers in them.
Oh well, it gives lots of discussion on the gun nutz!
If primers are tested in a lab, some will show more, and/or longer, fire than others. Usually it is the magnum primers that show as being the hottest.
But in real life, there is no real difference between standard and magnum primers, either in rifle or pistols. That is, a hand loader is unable to detect which primer it is, that is in his cartridge.
Some will say that you "Must" use a magnum primer with powder such as H4831 and some ball powders. Let's look at the facts. War surplus powders, including H4831 and the various Hodgdon ball powders, were on the market and hand loaded very extensively, for fifteen years before magnum primers were invented! IMR ball powders had been around a lot longer than that, all being lit with standard primers.
When magnum primers came along, we tried them. And since then I have used them interchangeably in rifles and in 357 and 44 magnum revolvers, and have been unable to detect any difference in the loads, of whether they were fired up by a standard, or a magnum primer.
I have chronographed identical, hot loads, of both rifle and revolver, and was unable to tell by the chrono results, which loads had the magnum primers in them.
Oh well, it gives lots of discussion on the gun nutz!
H4831, are You annoyed at the posts of newbies? He asked a question about primers, if you can help, just answer it.
Don't criticize a poster for not having as much experience as you. It doesn't help him with the question!
DEAD MEAT: Good post. That will work fine
Don't criticize a poster for not having as much experience as you. It doesn't help him with the question!
DEAD MEAT: Good post. That will work fine
Bassmaster
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- WMU 48 - Whitetail country
....and the post police has spoken....
Good post H4831
Good post H4831
- Location
- Prince Albert, Sk
Its Friday Night guys...
payday too and maybe a wobbly pop or two without and dinner
may have caused the snarkie reply.
Bruce gave his experience and opinion nothing more, nothing less.
Aside from the slight cost increase in burning magnum primers in non magnum loads
is about the only difference to be noticed.
Just my Humble opinion,
Rob
payday too and maybe a wobbly pop or two without and dinner
may have caused the snarkie reply.
Bruce gave his experience and opinion nothing more, nothing less.
Aside from the slight cost increase in burning magnum primers in non magnum loads
is about the only difference to be noticed.
Just my Humble opinion,
Rob
An example that comes to mind is from the .44 Magnum thread from a couple days ago. Many will insist that W296/H110 must be used with a magnum primer, but it was originally developed for .30 Carbine during WWII. I don't think it occurred to anyone at Winchester to invent the magnum primer at the same time.
For that matter, Winchester large pistol primers are all "for standard and magnum loads." If the difference is so important, how is it that they manage to make do with only one primer type?
I have used magnum primers before, but that was what the store happened to have on hand.
I bought a bunch of Remington primers, both large rifle ane large rifle magnum, no difference as far as I can tell, but I mostly load slow powders. Erring on the side of caution I would allow that with a powder that is already almost too fast for a cartridge/bullet combination , and already a hot load, going to a hotter primer might make a load a bit hotter. I expect that the pile of rifles that were damaged due to magnum primers is very small..
John Wesley Hardin
CGN Regular
- Location
- 45.457 x - 77.239
Good Informative post H4831. I seen no criticism in your post just good solid information a lot of reloaders can use. Please don't let this stop you from giving your insights in the reloading world.
Hardin
Hardin
John Wesley Hardin
CGN Regular
- Location
- 45.457 x - 77.239
Some powders are "easier" to ignite with magnum primers . It is related to the brisance of the primer BUT then again All primers vary lot to lot and who is on the manufacturing line at the time. So to say one primer is consistently better, hotter, more accurate , is pretty hard to establish.
When I change brands usually due to supply I rebuild my loads from a safe level.
Hardin
When I change brands usually due to supply I rebuild my loads from a safe level.
Hardin
I have used different primers in some loads, and in some cases, it didn't seem to make any difference at all, but in other cases, there was a measurable difference in velocity, or in accuracy. In smaller capacity cases, like the 22 Hornet, I have found that using the hotter primers has sometimes resulted in less consistent accuracy.
Some calibers and loads perform better with specific primers, some do not. As a rule, if I'm using book data, I'll use the recommended primer. Winchester, for a long time did not sell a Magnum LR primer, their LR primer was hot enough for most calibers and ball powder. Remington 9 1/2 primers were mild and gave the best accuracy with calibers whose optimum powder was 4895. Cold weather shooting may require a Magnum primer. The Federal 215 was the first Magnum primer, specifically designed for 4350 and slower powder in cases like the 300 Weatherby. Primer formulae changes and some of the newer ones are trying to eliminate lead. Magnum primers, can either be hotter or may have a longer burn time. The CCI 250 is formulated to have a longer burn time specifically to ignite ball powder.
What I'm trying to say is that, yes, in some instances, probably most instances, changing between Magnum, and standard or brands may not make any difference at all. But, there are circumstances or conditions that can make a simple switch produce an undesirable or potentially dangerous difference.
Not required is different from not recommended.
It is prudent to start at the beginning when changing any component, and primers are one of those components.
Here are a few instances where primers can create problems:
- 223 with some ball powders, a starting load with regular primers will create erratic ignition and sooty cases, changing to magnum primers will clean up ignition, loading closer to maximum with produce normal loads.
- 22 Hornet, such a small case that for consistent loads it requires a very weak primer, a magnum primer gave me horrible results, some normal loads, some very high pressure. Probably caused by the primer pushing the bullet into the rifling, followed by the powder igniting behind the stopped bullet.
Switching primers is sometimes required to get desired results, accuracy or cold weather velocity, but I would never recommend the willy/nilly change of primers, brands or types, on an favorite recipe.
What I'm trying to say is that, yes, in some instances, probably most instances, changing between Magnum, and standard or brands may not make any difference at all. But, there are circumstances or conditions that can make a simple switch produce an undesirable or potentially dangerous difference.
Not required is different from not recommended.
It is prudent to start at the beginning when changing any component, and primers are one of those components.
Here are a few instances where primers can create problems:
- 223 with some ball powders, a starting load with regular primers will create erratic ignition and sooty cases, changing to magnum primers will clean up ignition, loading closer to maximum with produce normal loads.
- 22 Hornet, such a small case that for consistent loads it requires a very weak primer, a magnum primer gave me horrible results, some normal loads, some very high pressure. Probably caused by the primer pushing the bullet into the rifling, followed by the powder igniting behind the stopped bullet.
Switching primers is sometimes required to get desired results, accuracy or cold weather velocity, but I would never recommend the willy/nilly change of primers, brands or types, on an favorite recipe.
For those of us who are 50 years of age or older, there were a number of things we read or heard that influenced how we selected primers.......First of all, there was the "O'Connor load".....it may as well have been written in stone that you had to use a magnum primer if your load had more than 60 grains of H4831 in your .270 Win.......Then there were the boys from Lewiston Idaho (Vernon Speer and O'Connor were good pals) who said all ball powders should be lit up with a CCI-250 primer, and especially in cold weather......Certain brands of primers are just hotter than others......Surely the Federal 215 must be the king of magnum primers, as all of these new thundering wonder cartridges that hold upwards of 100 grains of powder seem to use it in the various reloading manuals out there.....
I remember reading that the standard Winchester primer back in the 60's and 70's was considered a "hot" standard primer compared to the CCI-200.....But by the 1980's, gun scribes such as Bob Milek out of Wyoming started using and publishing the use of standard primers in cartridges such as the .338 WM........I have always used standard CCI-200 primers in my old .270 with loads upwards of 60 grains of H4831 in an R-P case.....and I never found a need to switch to a magnum cap because the load was very accurate with a 130 grain Nosler Solid Base bullet...(showing my age) and muzzle speed was over 3,000 fps.....
If I ever get my hands on some H335 or BLC-2 for my new .308, I plan to use standard primers first and if they perform as expected I'll stick with them.........
For my .338 WM, yes, I do use CCI-250 primers for all loads.....
I remember reading that the standard Winchester primer back in the 60's and 70's was considered a "hot" standard primer compared to the CCI-200.....But by the 1980's, gun scribes such as Bob Milek out of Wyoming started using and publishing the use of standard primers in cartridges such as the .338 WM........I have always used standard CCI-200 primers in my old .270 with loads upwards of 60 grains of H4831 in an R-P case.....and I never found a need to switch to a magnum cap because the load was very accurate with a 130 grain Nosler Solid Base bullet...(showing my age) and muzzle speed was over 3,000 fps.....
If I ever get my hands on some H335 or BLC-2 for my new .308, I plan to use standard primers first and if they perform as expected I'll stick with them.........
For my .338 WM, yes, I do use CCI-250 primers for all loads.....
- Location
- Ottawa origanally Muskoka
The only way I can effectively shoot BL-C(2) in 7.62x54R is to use LRM primers.
The standard CCI 200 LR primers make the bullet jump from the case and cause the ball powder to cake up and turn from graphite grey to red oxide brown about 80% of the time.
I made the switch to CCI 250LRM primers used the same powder measurements and have not had the problem asociated with my first 20 rounds.
The standard CCI 200 LR primers make the bullet jump from the case and cause the ball powder to cake up and turn from graphite grey to red oxide brown about 80% of the time.
I made the switch to CCI 250LRM primers used the same powder measurements and have not had the problem asociated with my first 20 rounds.
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