I have a model 92 .44-40 I just got from a great CGNer. The gun was built in 1895 I think. I have a box of modern Rem. factory loads to empty, would these be to hard on this gun, or are they still down-loaded to black powder specs? The gun is nice & tight, don't want to shake it too hard. Thanks, Bill..
Win. 92 .44-40 ammo choice.
- Thread starter oldiron
- Start date
- Location
- Golden Lake
As long as the ammo is "modern" and doesn't say "High Velocity" on the packaging AND you're sure that the cartridges are not hot reloads - then you'd be safe to go. Modern factory ammo is loaded way down - lots of old M73 Winchesters still around.
The standard .44 WCF loads were loaded in deference to the older 1873 actions which were not very strong. Even old factory loads for the .44 WCF marked high velocity should be perfectly safe in a 92 which is exactly the rifle they were made for.
twobitrifles
Member
- Location
- Houston, TX
Hello,
The modern ammunition for all four of the Model 1892 calibers are loaded to the same pressure and velocity characteristics as the original black powder.
"Shooting a few and seeing how it feels" is a terrible way to test a rifle. What would happen if the first one blew the dang thing into pieces??? Take the
rifle to a good gun smith, have him take a look at it and give his blessings. then purchase some new Winchester, Remington, or low velocity Black Hills
ammo and then shoot the gun.
If you would like to learn much more about your rifle contact me at 2bitrifles@gmail.com I am conducting a research survey of this Model and have cataloged
almost 5000 rifles and own more than 30 of them. I will be more than glad to help you. You can read about some of the work at these forums:
http://www.levergunscommunity.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=27559&p=343093&hilit=1892+survey#p343093
http://www.winchestercollector.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3460
http://forums.gunbroker.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=606355
Michael
The modern ammunition for all four of the Model 1892 calibers are loaded to the same pressure and velocity characteristics as the original black powder.
"Shooting a few and seeing how it feels" is a terrible way to test a rifle. What would happen if the first one blew the dang thing into pieces??? Take the
rifle to a good gun smith, have him take a look at it and give his blessings. then purchase some new Winchester, Remington, or low velocity Black Hills
ammo and then shoot the gun.
If you would like to learn much more about your rifle contact me at 2bitrifles@gmail.com I am conducting a research survey of this Model and have cataloged
almost 5000 rifles and own more than 30 of them. I will be more than glad to help you. You can read about some of the work at these forums:
http://www.levergunscommunity.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=27559&p=343093&hilit=1892+survey#p343093
http://www.winchestercollector.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3460
http://forums.gunbroker.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=606355
Michael
Perhaps you did not understanding the question.
I believe that Oldiron has already stated the condition of the rifle is very good, and having had dealings with him I would trust his judgement at the equivalent of most gunsmiths. Knowing that, the next logical step in the real world is a test fire. Even a gunsmith can only base his opinion on what he can see and a test fire is still the ultimate answer to shooting condition of an old rifle.
Talking down to people when you don't know their level of experience is the metaphorical equivalent of firing a rifle of unknown condition. Maybe you should talk to the gunsmith before you fire any more shots.
I believe that Oldiron has already stated the condition of the rifle is very good, and having had dealings with him I would trust his judgement at the equivalent of most gunsmiths. Knowing that, the next logical step in the real world is a test fire. Even a gunsmith can only base his opinion on what he can see and a test fire is still the ultimate answer to shooting condition of an old rifle.
Talking down to people when you don't know their level of experience is the metaphorical equivalent of firing a rifle of unknown condition. Maybe you should talk to the gunsmith before you fire any more shots.
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twobitrifles
Member
- Location
- Houston, TX
Hello,
I was in no way trying to talk down to "oldiron". His only stated condition of the rifle was "The gun is nice & tight, don't want to shake it too hard." And obviously from his question he is not familiar wit hthe rifle or the ammunition specs. That is not a problem and yes it is a darn good reason to ask the question he did. But the combination of the "shake test" and the question portray someone not intimately familiar wit hfirearms.
I have been a moderator on a site called Gun Value Board for over 3 years and have over 12,000 replies to questions there. I am very often amazed at the questions and ideas that people have who it is very obvious know little or nothing about firearms. Some of the things I have heard asked do present possible harmful situations. I was only trying to make the point that there are much better ways to asses a rifle than shaking it or firing it without a thorough inspection from a qualified gunsmith.
I take the recommendations I make to people very seriously because of the serious consequences of bad choices. Oldiron apparently was not offended by my points and in fact happily offered up information on the Model 1892 rifles he owns for the survey I am working on. I have cataloged the guns and I am sending him information on each one.
Thanks for your input.
Michael
I was in no way trying to talk down to "oldiron". His only stated condition of the rifle was "The gun is nice & tight, don't want to shake it too hard." And obviously from his question he is not familiar wit hthe rifle or the ammunition specs. That is not a problem and yes it is a darn good reason to ask the question he did. But the combination of the "shake test" and the question portray someone not intimately familiar wit hfirearms.
I have been a moderator on a site called Gun Value Board for over 3 years and have over 12,000 replies to questions there. I am very often amazed at the questions and ideas that people have who it is very obvious know little or nothing about firearms. Some of the things I have heard asked do present possible harmful situations. I was only trying to make the point that there are much better ways to asses a rifle than shaking it or firing it without a thorough inspection from a qualified gunsmith.
I take the recommendations I make to people very seriously because of the serious consequences of bad choices. Oldiron apparently was not offended by my points and in fact happily offered up information on the Model 1892 rifles he owns for the survey I am working on. I have cataloged the guns and I am sending him information on each one.
Thanks for your input.
Michael
The "don't want to shake it too hard" was poor English. As in don't want to use too hot of a load, shaking the gun to pieces. I have a few other guns, and understand the workings and limitations of several.
Thanks, Bill..
Oh dear, I see the problem now. I had assumed that you were a condescending jackass from your first post, but apparently you honestly didn't understand oldiron's post. My mistake - and I apologize. Let me explain:
When oldiron said the gun was tight, he was referring to the action and lockup, not the fact it didn't rattle when he shook it, LOL.
When oldiron said he didn't want to "shake it too hard" he was not referring to a "shake test" like you assumed, he meant he didn't want to shoot overly hot ammo in it. Because it's an old rifle and he doesn't want to hurt it. It had nothing to do with physically shaking it.
So based on that I'll assume oldiron has a bit more knowledge than you gave him credit for, even if he isn't a moderator with 12,000 posts. And you were in fact talking down to him but you did it by mistake since you don't understand what he meant. It's kind of funny, actually.
I am guessing you're not from western Canada or you would have understood our slang. Where are you from?
Edit: oldiron beat me by 5 minutes with his explanation. I didn't see it before I started this post.
When oldiron said the gun was tight, he was referring to the action and lockup, not the fact it didn't rattle when he shook it, LOL.
When oldiron said he didn't want to "shake it too hard" he was not referring to a "shake test" like you assumed, he meant he didn't want to shoot overly hot ammo in it. Because it's an old rifle and he doesn't want to hurt it. It had nothing to do with physically shaking it.
So based on that I'll assume oldiron has a bit more knowledge than you gave him credit for, even if he isn't a moderator with 12,000 posts. And you were in fact talking down to him but you did it by mistake since you don't understand what he meant. It's kind of funny, actually.
I am guessing you're not from western Canada or you would have understood our slang. Where are you from?
Edit: oldiron beat me by 5 minutes with his explanation. I didn't see it before I started this post.
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twobitrifles
Member
- Location
- Houston, TX
Bill and Jethunter,
No I am not from western Canada. But I have visited that wonderful part of the continent. I actually grew up in southern Michigan but have lived in Houston, Texas for 33 years. It is a great place, just hot as hell right now, and no mountains and cold rivers. But wait. Just so you both don't think I am some know it all from across the border my wonderful mom is from Canada and I am proud of that.
The fact that I moderate on a website and have jillions of replies is not a medal on my chest that makes me anything special. It is solely a yard stick of my commitment to helping people understand some old Winchesters, and for so many people, to try and understand firearms. Many of the people I deal with have NO idea of what they have. It is a gun that somebody left to them or they bought it for some goofy reason. Now that they have it they need to learn something. Hopefully they learn. I had a guy just yesterday refer to the magazine as "the bullet holder tube"!! NO kidding, I don't make this junk up. So I am probably guilty of taking what is written to literally.
Thanks
Michael
No I am not from western Canada. But I have visited that wonderful part of the continent. I actually grew up in southern Michigan but have lived in Houston, Texas for 33 years. It is a great place, just hot as hell right now, and no mountains and cold rivers. But wait. Just so you both don't think I am some know it all from across the border my wonderful mom is from Canada and I am proud of that.
The fact that I moderate on a website and have jillions of replies is not a medal on my chest that makes me anything special. It is solely a yard stick of my commitment to helping people understand some old Winchesters, and for so many people, to try and understand firearms. Many of the people I deal with have NO idea of what they have. It is a gun that somebody left to them or they bought it for some goofy reason. Now that they have it they need to learn something. Hopefully they learn. I had a guy just yesterday refer to the magazine as "the bullet holder tube"!! NO kidding, I don't make this junk up. So I am probably guilty of taking what is written to literally.
Thanks
Michael
My wife and I each have a Browning '92 in .44 mag. We shoot .44 Spl. loads in them for CAS.
The '92 action is a mini-'86 and with it's twin locking bolts, is able to withstand any sensible load in a 44-40. Your barrel might be marked "nickel steel'' or some such indicator of strength.
I also have both a Uberti Henry and a '66 in 44-40 and these so called brass framed rifles have digested hundreds if not thousands of smokeless and BP loads, showing no signs of stress or excessive wear.
The '92 action is a bank vault by comparison.
The '92 action is a mini-'86 and with it's twin locking bolts, is able to withstand any sensible load in a 44-40. Your barrel might be marked "nickel steel'' or some such indicator of strength.
I also have both a Uberti Henry and a '66 in 44-40 and these so called brass framed rifles have digested hundreds if not thousands of smokeless and BP loads, showing no signs of stress or excessive wear.
The '92 action is a bank vault by comparison.
I read twobits original post and decided to ignore it.
I stand by my advice to the OP. He is a knowlegable, long time, well respected member of our community. No where in his post does he indicate that the gun was unsafe to fire.
I was not giving interweb advice to a novice that had found a tomato stake under the floor boards of an abandon house and wanted to know if it was OK to make it go bang.
'nuff said. Thanks for coming out twobits.
I stand by my advice to the OP. He is a knowlegable, long time, well respected member of our community. No where in his post does he indicate that the gun was unsafe to fire.
I was not giving interweb advice to a novice that had found a tomato stake under the floor boards of an abandon house and wanted to know if it was OK to make it go bang.
'nuff said. Thanks for coming out twobits.
The web site "http://www.cascity.com/forumhall/", has a lot of information on the original loadings for the .44-40 cartridge., but you will have to spend some time reading to find it all or use the search function.
That's what I'm looking for as I still have my old '73 that filled my first Whitetail tag back in the early '60s.
I'd like to have some mild loads for it that wouldn't be too much for the action so I could still take it out once in a while..
Kevin
If you get on CasCity and express an interest in "light loads" for your '73, you will generate some amusement .... If it was an original '73 toggle link action, you might have some concerns if it was a little wobbly, but if it's a reasonably tight gun, no worries mate. If so, get it checked out by a 'smith.
I shoot regularly with guys operating both original and repro '73's; smokeless and BP. No one has any issues, and we pound these rifles with a LOT of rounds in a year. The original and repro '92's are MUCH stronger actions, chambered up to .44 Magnum.
Some of us can remember when makers offered 38-40 and 44-40 ammo in both rifle and pistol loadings. They were relying on the common sense of users NOT to fire the wrong ammo in their guns. Now we need instructions on the barrels of guns to remind us to read the booklet that come with the guns!
If you get on CasCity and express an interest in "light loads" for your '73, you will generate some amusement .... If it was an original '73 toggle link action, you might have some concerns if it was a little wobbly, but if it's a reasonably tight gun, no worries mate. If so, get it checked out by a 'smith.
I shoot regularly with guys operating both original and repro '73's; smokeless and BP. No one has any issues, and we pound these rifles with a LOT of rounds in a year. The original and repro '92's are MUCH stronger actions, chambered up to .44 Magnum.
Some of us can remember when makers offered 38-40 and 44-40 ammo in both rifle and pistol loadings. They were relying on the common sense of users NOT to fire the wrong ammo in their guns. Now we need instructions on the barrels of guns to remind us to read the booklet that come with the guns!
The old '73 is in excellent condition internally as its been a safe queen for ages, but a recent acquisition of a bullet mould for the 44-40 has re-kindled my interest in shooting the old girl.
I recall a thread from some time ago started by a CGNer on here about loading for a '73, but my search function is next to useless.
He did post some loads if I remember correctly.
I recall a thread from some time ago started by a CGNer on here about loading for a '73, but my search function is next to useless.
He did post some loads if I remember correctly.
Get a copy of the current "Rifle" magazine. It has an article by Mike Venturino on the '73, his favourite lever action rifle, including pet loads. In fact, get all of his books on western guns for reference and/or google his writings on loading for lever action rifles. He is widely regarded as the go to 'expert' on the topic.
Any time you tire of the rifle, feel free to contact me .... ;>) It will come to a loving home and be carefully shot with safe loads aplenty!
Any time you tire of the rifle, feel free to contact me .... ;>) It will come to a loving home and be carefully shot with safe loads aplenty!
