Swiss Arms rifles being examined for reclassification?

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By that logic one could rationally conclude it would be best to stay away from anything not a "duck gun", or perhaps from firearms altogether.

Back to the 12.x argument: If the reclassification of a firearm as prohibited, is slam dunk doomed to result in confiscation, how come there is a 12.x category at all ? By any estimation there are a considerable number of these rifles in the country now, which makes a difference as cited by posters above. The legal history of these re-classifications notwithstanding, I can't help but think that all options are open. Lets not forget that the main driver of the repeal of the LGR was the wasteful expense of it, not its unfairness to us. The legal diddling required to grandfather current owners would certainly seem cheaper and the results of it more assured than an attempt at confiscation & reimbursement would be. Legislators can change a law, that's what they do. "Just my guess ;)".

What you need to understand is the reason for the prohibition determines what will happen to the gun.

The 12.x firearms that are in private hands today are there because these guns were legal when acquired. They were named as prohibited by OIC or the law was changed so that they became prohibited. With guns like the T97, they were never legal, they were improperly classified and should have never been allowed to be sold. With these firearms, there is no option to be grandfathered in to possession because you were never authorized to possess the firearm in the first place, unlike you were with current 12.x firearms before they became prohibited. So these firearms do not become prohibited because of a change in law, but because of enforcement of current law.
 
What you need to understand is the reason for the prohibition determines what will happen to the gun.

The 12.x firearms that are in private hands today are there because these guns were legal when acquired. They were named as prohibited by OIC or the law was changed so that they became prohibited. With guns like the T97, they were never legal, they were improperly classified and should have never been allowed to be sold. With these firearms, there is no option to be grandfathered in to possession because you were never authorized to possess the firearm in the first place, unlike you were with current 12.x firearms before they became prohibited. So these firearms do not become prohibited because of a change in law, but because of enforcement of current law.

OK AR180, I understand what you are saying but this:

The 12.x firearms that are in private hands today are there because these guns were legal when acquired.

is what I see as being the situation with the current owners of the PE-90 after 12 years or so. I'm no lawyer, as you've no doubt guessed, but assuming this government doesn't wish to 1) Get egg on their face for repealing the LGR, 2) Alienate both gun owners and non-owners by engaging in yet another expensive / ineffective / unnecessary firearms boondoggle, 3) Fuel legitimate criticism by political opposition parties, 4) Blow a lot of money; I'm suggesting they may see grandfathering as a very practical and attractive solution.

Did the government not rule on the PE-90 before they were brought into this country by Canadian distributors ? Could a legal limitation on reversing a position apply after 12 years ? I don't know the answer to these questions but my guess is that the current government would not be hamstrung looking for an easy solution (grandfathering) if they chose to pursue it.
 
OK AR180, I understand what you are saying but this:



is what I see as being the situation with the current owners of the PE-90 after 12 years or so. I'm no lawyer, as you've no doubt guessed, but assuming this government doesn't wish to 1) Get egg on their face for repealing the LGR, 2) Alienate both gun owners and non-owners by engaging in yet another expensive / ineffective / unnecessary firearms boondoggle, 3) Fuel legitimate criticism by political opposition parties, 4) Blow a lot of money; I'm suggesting they may see grandfathering as a very practical and attractive solution.

Did the government not rule on the PE-90 before they were brought into this country by Canadian distributors ? Could a legal limitation on reversing a position apply after 12 years ? I don't know the answer to these questions but my guess is that the current government would not be hamstrung looking for an easy solution (grandfathering) if they chose to pursue it.

I'm sorry your "suggestion" of Swiss Arms owners getting 12.X prohib license's.............. is not right (edited).........or at least not well thought out..........and I'm not afraid to say it ;)

12.6 Prohib license's do not get issued, it's not possible, grand fathering doesn't even exist anymore. Deal with it like everyone else :)

The Government may have made a ruling, but this was apparently done without a physical examination of the firearm. Some are suggesting that they have made this physical examination, they have determined that allowing the issuing of an FRT was a mistake in the first place, and so will fix this mistake by taking our rifles. This has happened before in the exact same fashion. It's very possible it is happening again.
 
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In order for a grandfathering to occur you had to have owned the firearm on a certain date. That date has long long passed. The law is very clear, I am way too lazy to dig it up. There would have to be a new law written for grandfathering to be legal. That would be awesome but there is no way the current government is going to in act the anger of the MSM after the LGR #### show.
 
If the RCMP reclassify SA's as prohibited, it would suggest gross negligence on their part. On the positive side, it could bring an opportunity to challenge constitutionality of the entire classification & licensing system. I want a Styr Aug A3. This "variant" criteria, grandfathering, aesthetic prejudice, etc is total BS.
 
If the RCMP reclassify SA's as prohibited, it would suggest gross negligence on their part. On the positive side, it could bring an opportunity to challenge constitutionality of the entire classification & licensing system. I want a Steyr Aug A3. This "variant" criteria, grandfathering, aesthetic prejudice, etc is total BS.

Seconded
 
If the RCMP reclassify SA's as prohibited, it would suggest gross negligence on their part. On the positive side, it could bring an opportunity to challenge constitutionality of the entire classification & licensing system. I want a Styr Aug A3. This "variant" criteria, grandfathering, aesthetic prejudice, etc is total BS.

And remember the term "variant" is not defined within the Criminal Code and the way it is used by the Firearms Lab is not correct by definition.

Oh, if I could only win $10mil in the lottery we could make the lefties scream........or 2 million Canadian gun owners donate $10 a year to CSSA and NFA.
 
Actually, I have nothing to "deal with"; just engaging in a little to and fro banter on the topic. Occasionally one does get jumped on by nitwits from the sidelines who aren't "afraid to say" things anonymously over the internet. Sometimes this goes with the territory,,,, "impressive" ;) !

I think I am one of the few around here who is not anonymous. Not by any stretch, and this coming from a guy who calls himself HKMark23. From the East.

And your banter, (at least in relation to the idea of them issuing prohib 12.x license's) was retarded ;)

I don't try to impress, that part just comes naturally ;) Glad you enjoyed it.....

I wonder if Alberta Tactical Rifle Supply would drop this bomb again, if they saw all this reaction.....

It's obvious that some people know exactly what is going on with all of this, I have spoken with a few of them, none of them released all the details, and even when piecing it all together the picture is hazy at best. There are definitely a lot of un seen factors here, and we are going to be in limbo, perhaps for quite some time, and perhaps not. The people who know whats going on are not going to tell us more until there are some more solid details to report on. It's a shame, because there are more than a few who know exactly whats up.

What we know for sure is a business member out there received a SAN rifle on trade in, they believed it was a converted auto, (I think it was because the Lower receiver was in fact a C/A but not the upper, which is what matters, apparently there are several C/A lowers out there and there not the issue) they then contacted the RCMP and stirred this entire pot, they claimed a reputable business (a competitor of theirs) was selling converted auto guns. They then sent three PE-90 rifles to the RCMP for examination, one was the rifle they claimed was a C/A, and the other two were random samples. The rifle in question was determined to be a SEMI only rifle.

So we can relax right......WRONG....... The two samples were determined to be converted auto's. This opened a huge can of worms.....

It apparently has nothing to do with ######## ( < Censorship sucks dude), he is a complete POS for another reason entirely, and should be shunned and boycotted from any firearms circle we know of, and so should anyone else who does what he did, which for the record was build some Blow back Sten guns in his basement and when the RCMP told him he couldn't build blow back SMG's because they were easily converted to auto, he said to them, "What about the BD38, it's the same thing", and so the RCMP went out and stole everyone's BD38's. End of Story. The guys a douche.

From some of the things I have been able to find out, beyond this entire incident of someone contacting them, the RCMP have received a FAMAE SG540 for review, and a SAPR for review. The SAPR is clearly marketed as a derivative of the SG550. When the SAN rifles first came into the country, they were marketed as a derivative of the SG540 (By who, Our Side or theirs) , well since the RCMP apparently never bothered to look at the SAN rifles when they first came in they never knew any better. Now that they have compared side by side, and seen the differences between the FAMAE SG540, and our PE-90's. They can plainly see that it's a different design, so they compare the PE-90's to the SAPR, and realize they are almost identical except for caliber......But the SAPR is marketed as a derivative of the SG550, and those are prohib by name......Catching my drift? They have realized their screw up.....Hence this letter to SAN to answer some of their questions. We will have to wait and see.

When the SAN rifles were first imported, the importer had said that they were based on the SG540. Unfortunately, the RCMP has also recently received several SG540's for testing. It has become apparent that the SAN rifles are in fact likely derivatives of the SG550. (Source will remain un named)
 
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None of the details matter here at all!!!!!!

SERIOUSLY WTF DOES ANY OF IT MATTER?

There are thousands of full auto rifles in safes around the country right now, and no babies are being murdered because of them!

All of this BS from the RCMP about "in the interest of public safety" is absolute BS!

This is confiscation plain and simple, and focusing on technicalities to do it is a crock of ####!

The RCMP needs to be held to account for this BS, and be taught a lesson. This BS has to be stopped, and it's gonna take a court hearing and several appeals to get their.

My wallet is ready with what little I have to donate.

As to the CPC! They will not see another dime from me, and honestly my hard head has me leaning towards not even voting for the f*&kers while all of this continues to go down under their watch. It has become very clear to me that they have absolutely no interest in helping us beyond what they can pass off as "in the interest of hunter and farmers" and that they will continue to support the confiscation of our guns, and destruction of this sport, until there is nothing but "hunters and farmers" left in it!

The CPC need to feel this where it hurts! They need to know this #### will not fly!

Might as well be the NDP, or Liberals in power right now. At least if they made sweeping bans more gun owners might wake the f*&k up, and we might stand a chance. As it stands the death by a thousand cuts plan is working, and we are headed down a slippery slope if they continue to get away with it.

And just so everyone is clear here, the death of the LGR means absolutely S&*t!

Owning one of these guns, despite no records, will become a serious offence punishable by jail time, as well as handing over all of your collection. Nobody wins in such a case. The only way it works is if every gun owner, or at least a large majority tell the RCMP and the CPC to f*&k off. The chances of which are slim.......

Edit: Sorry that turned into a rant....
 
RCMP are jealous of are lovely swiss arms rifles and want to seize all of ours to replace thier C7's lol

but we need to stay informed on this so we dont get cought like we did on the BD-38 and actually do something like they said in the latest magasine from the NFA
 
I think I am one of the few around here who is not anonymous. Not by any stretch, and this coming from a guy who calls himself HKMark23. From the East.

And your banter, (at least in relation to the idea of them issuing prohib 12.x license's) was retarded ;)

I don't try to impress, that part just comes naturally ;) Glad you enjoyed it.....

I wonder if Alberta Tactical Rifle Supply would drop this bomb again, if they saw all this reaction.....

It's obvious that some people know exactly what is going on with all of this, I have spoken with a few of them, none of them released all the details, and even when piecing it all together the picture is hazy at best. There are definitely a lot of un seen factors here, and we are going to be in limbo, perhaps for quite some time, and perhaps not. The people who know whats going on are not going to tell us more until there are some more solid details to report on. It's a shame, because there are more than a few who know exactly whats up.

What we know for sure is a business member out there received a SAN rifle on trade in, they believed it was a converted auto, (I think it was because the Lower receiver was in fact a C/A but not the upper, which is what matters, apparently there are several C/A lowers out there and there not the issue) they then contacted the RCMP and stirred this entire pot, they claimed a reputable business (a competitor of theirs) was selling converted auto guns. They then sent three PE-90 rifles to the RCMP for examination, one was the rifle they claimed was a C/A, and the other two were random samples. The rifle in question was determined to be a SEMI only rifle.

So we can relax right......WRONG....... The two samples were determined to be converted auto's. This opened a huge can of worms.....

It apparently has nothing to do with ######## ( < Censorship sucks dude), he is a complete POS for another reason entirely, and should be shunned and boycotted from any firearms circle we know of, and so should anyone else who does what he did, which for the record was build some Blow back Sten guns in his basement and when the RCMP told him he couldn't build blow back SMG's because they were easily converted to auto, he said to them, "What about the BD38, it's the same thing", and so the RCMP went out and stole everyone's BD38's. End of Story. The guys a douche.

From some of the things I have been able to find out, beyond this entire incident of someone contacting them, the RCMP have received a FAMAE SG540 for review, and a SAPR for review. The SAPR is clearly marketed as a derivative of the SG550. When the SAN rifles first came into the country, they were marketed as a derivative of the SG540 (By who, Our Side or theirs) , well since the RCMP apparently never bothered to look at the SAN rifles when they first came in they never knew any better. Now that they have compared side by side, and seen the differences between the FAMAE SG540, and our PE-90's. They can plainly see that it's a different design, so they compare the PE-90's to the SAPR, and realize they are almost identical except for caliber......But the SAPR is marketed as a derivative of the SG550, and those are prohib by name......Catching my drift? They have realized their screw up.....Hence this letter to SAN to answer some of their questions. We will have to wait and see.

When the SAN rifles were first imported, the importer had said that they were based on the SG540. Unfortunately, the RCMP has also recently received several SG540's for testing. It has become apparent that the SAN rifles are in fact likely derivatives of the SG550. (Source will remain un named)

Which of course is similar to the SCAR FN USA issue too.....

These laws are baddly written
 
We NEED to get the ball rolling on a legislation. One with limiting factors on firearm reclassification! It could be call the hunting heritage act or something similar :) . It should limit the time that after a firearm is classify non restricted or restricted it can only be reclassified for a set number of time, let say one year or two maybe even three. This would give the rcmp time to review a rifle , but PROTECT our rights , heritage and property so they could have done the t97 thing but not shenanigans like this with the san rifles.Thoughts?#
 
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